Imperial Hefeweizen

I used to drink it regularly until it stopped being generally imported to Holland.

 

Ron, below is how Jeff Alworth detailed it in his All About Beer article:

“Unification

Bavarian lagers remained an oddity for centuries as the rest of the world went about their ale-making ways. The northern and Bavarian traditions only started coming into conflict in the latter part of the 19th century, when Germany unified in 1871. The law that followed two years later did not include ingredient restrictions (this allowed the state to tax all the ingredients being used by northern brewers). The first version of the law we have now, with separate rules for ales and lagers, only came into effect in 1906. World War I interceded, requiring another reunification under the Weimar Republic—which Bavaria agreed to join only if its beer law joined with it. The resulting post-war legislation was also the first time the decree was formally called the Reinheitsgebot, the “purity law.”

In order to accommodate the co-existence of the two traditions, the 1919 Reinheitsgebot effectively became two laws; the old, restrictive one for lagers and a more lenient one for ales. The bifurcated “Reinheitsgebot” has caused quite a bit of confusion over the years. In the popular imagination, all German beer is made with only barley, hops, water and yeast. But an ale brewery making beer with wheat malt, coriander and salt is also Reinheitsgebot-compliant, thanks to the expanded rules. There are just so few of those latter beers left that few people have had occasion to take notice.”

The Bavarians did insist on Reinheitsgebot being the ‘law of the land’ in order for them to join a unified Germany. As to their political motivations for this stance, perhaps you have better insight.

Cheers!

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/happy-birthday-reinheitsgebot/

 

But just as all the "crazy shit" going on today, was it all good?

This sounds familiar, and maybe even a concession to get Bavaria into all of the tax system, but I'd be interested to know the majority opinion of non-Bavarian Germany of the RHG. Did they really miss their Yogurt Beer?

But maybe this is a direction to the answer for the RHG -- give it back to Bavaria and allow the rest of Germany to resurrect their old styles?

 

Unfortunately, it's also not as readily available in my area as it used to be. Maybe a blessing in disguise.

 

I was a doubter as well but then I tasted it. This beer is incredible. It is a perfect beer. Blown away by how much better it was than what I was expecting.

 

Perfect DIPA, maybe. Didn't taste anything like any Bavarian Weizen I've ever had.

Are you speaking of a recent tasting (2017 release), or the past renditions?

 

I would agree that it's not to style as a Bavarian weizen, and yes, it is probably closer to a DIPA or imperial wheat IPA (although it is not super bitter) but it tastes incredible. I'm talking about the recent version. I picked up a bomber yesterday and another today, both fresh off the truck.

 

It's still not rare enough to crack the Top 250 here on Beer Advocate.

 

With all that said, what makes it a "perfect" beer, as you called it?

To be fair, I didn't find the beer at all offensive and thought it rather drinkable. But I gave it low marks because the brewery was telling me that it was a "Bavarian-styled Weizen." In reality, it was a Lagunitan-styled Weizen that bore no resemblance to anything truly Bavarian. If it had been labeled a DIPA I probably would have ranked it much higher than 2.95.

 

Hah -- and it's even "top-fermented."

 

That checks off two of the boxes. It would also need something like dry-hopping with new-age hops, barrel-aging, adjuncts, and/or spontaneous fermentation to crack the Top 250.

Although there are a few anomalies like Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier at 178th on the list.

 

That's because everyone is proud that they learned how to type Weihenstephaner, I know I am.

 

I think that so many people just use Weihenstephaner as their benchmark brewery for german styles because they assume that they have the best beers because they are the oldest...

I need to get another Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier and Vitus to try them again if I can decipher the date codes and find a relatively fresh one (If I was interpreting the Schneider weisse date codes correctly I couldn't find one fresher than 2015. And the big liquor stores I went to this week had their Aventinus with labels on the necks saying "Brewed in 2011").

But my wife and I thought that the Weihenstephaner Festbier was far from the greatest beer that we've tried... We weren't expecting it to be sweet like an american brewed märzen but the beer just had very little malty flavor but a very generic graininess that reminded me more of a random american lager. On the other hand. The Hacker-pschorr Oktoberfest and Ayinger Oktoberfest's were extremely delicious. Bready, toasty, sweet...

 

There is a possibility those bottles were actually deliberately aged in the Brewery's Eiskeller before being released. Every year they put something like 500 cases in their Eiskeller and release half of them about 3 years later and the other half about 2-3 years later than that. Since they've been doing this for some years now there's an ongoing supply of pre-aged Aventinus in stores lucky enough to get a case.

With those labels from the brewery there's a good chance that's the beer you've been finding.

My first Aventinus was actually one with about 6 years of bottle age that had come from their Eiskeller program and it was an outstanding beer. Much more subtle than the fresh and amazingly good.

 

Just call it, "Hefeweizen". I'm pretty sure most people don't know that there's other examples of them out there, and would know what you were referring to.

To be fair, the majority of their beers, when fresh, are outstanding.

A few things here. When did you try the Festbier? Many German imports are bottled in May/June, and don't even hit our shelves until August. Freshness is paramount with this style in my opinion.

Also, Hacker-Pschorr and Ayinger's import are amber-Oktoberfests (Ayinger's sort of toes the line, but it's still more amber than pale in my opinion). Weihenstephan's is one of the lightest examples out there, and doesn't have any toasty characteristics to my palate. It's more akin to a ramped up Helles.

When it's on, and fresh, Weihenstephan's Festbier is incredible in my opinion, one of my fall (well, sort of) favorites I look forward to each year, both bottle and draft.

 

And the word "fresh" is indeed absolutely key here. Last fall (September) the Weihenstephaner Festbier that was on my local beer stores shelves were bottled the beginning of may. Those beers showed the effects of age.

Pardon me ranting again but why the hell does Weihenstephaner brew their Festbiers 5 months before the season? If the Weihenstephaner Festbier of 2017 is as old this time around I will just buy more Sly Fox Oktoberfest instead.

Non-cheers to old German brewed beers!!

 

I don't really have a good answer for that, and I am curious myself. I haven't been to Germany in the summer, but perhaps them begin drinking Festbiers earlier than September? And maybe they brew multiple batches, the first of which being the only one we receive?

If I recall correctly, you don't enjoy drinking your Oktoberfests well out of season, I know many do not. For me, at least this year specifically, I had two things going for me. I drink Oktoberfests as soon as they hit the shelves. And I received some that had June bottling dates if my memory serves me right.

The drafts also showed no signs of aging.

 

In Texas if you say Hefeweizen there's no way people will know you're talking about Weihenstephaner. Franziskaner, Paulaner, Wonder, or Live Oak if you're in Austin. Weihenstephaner is rare here.

The Festbier six pack was from Specs within a few days of them showing up here... Should have been in August... But I still see them on the shelf unlike the other Oktoberfest beers which are gone.

Yes the Hacker-Pschorr and Ayinger are in the märzen version of Oktoberfests as I said... And what I've read throughout is much more similar to the Oktoberfest beers originally served... But as with all the popular beers they've dumbed down the beers to appeal to the common denominator. Festbier transitioned from a rich malty beer to a weak version much more similar to a Helles...

 

The age of imported beers in a local market (Philly, Boston, whatever) is dependent on what the importer brings in and how they distribute it to the various wholesale distributors. In my area (Southeastern Pennsylvania) it seems that there was only one 'drop' of the Weihenstephaner Festbier; all of the beer stores throughout the season (August - October/November) were from the same batch (bottled early May).

Again, why does Weihenstephaner even make bottle these beers in May? A crazy business decision from a end customer perspective. As I stated before, if Weihenstephaner does this again they lost my business.

Cheers!

 

It was really more tongue in cheek speaking to the general Beer Advocate population.

That Live Oak is outstanding though, I had the chance to try it last year. A banana bomb, and maybe the best new beer I had all of last year.

I apologize, I misunderstood you as comparing the two as if they were the exact same style. Although I re-read your post and still don't see where you mention HP and Ayinger are Maerzens/a different type of beer.

It's still a rich malty beer, just a different ratio of Vienna, Munich, and/or Pilsner malts. It's not akin to say, an American adjunct lager like Budweiser or Coors, in which more flavor-rich malts like those I listed are substituted for rice/corn.

I could be off-base here, but saying one type of Oktoberfest is "dumbed down" compared to the other, is like saying a Helles is a dumbed down version of a Vienna lager. It's not, they're just two different beers.