Maibock Online Tasting - April 8th

I was just guessing it would be available since I have seen beers from Ayinger on the shelf. I have not specifically seen their Maibock, though. Sorry if I got your (and mine) hopes up.

 

FWIW, I've never seen Ayinger's Maibock around. The only imports I've ever seen were Hofbräuhaus, Mahr's and Einbecker. Spaten stopped exporting theirs a long time ago and Hacker-Pschorr had one as a special release a couple years back, but I haven't seen it since.

Here are a couple non-German imports I've found: Rieder Festbock, Primator Maibock.

Oh, Altenmünster Maibock shows up now and again.

And I almost forgot that Aldi imported one last year that was pretty good: Feldschlösschen Maibock.

 

Blast!
Then bring on the Hofbrau unt Einbecker.

 

Lots of pretty good U.S. renditions too. Capital was always my favorite this time of year, but that past few years it's been full of diacetyl. Had some Lakefront a couple weeks back -- real good, and Summit is pretty good, if not a bit more "robust" than others (yeah, next to Oktoberfest, Maibock is probably my second favorite style).

 

What really is the characteristics of a Maibock that does not match with Dead Guy? I've seen this stated for close to 10 years... Looking at the breweries description of the beer now they list it has trademarked "Dare" and "Risk" malts and proprietary "Revolution" and "Independent" hops... But those are definitely not the recipe that was used back when I was drinking Dead Guy ale when I came back from Germany in 2008... Because they didn't have their hop fields or malting system setup then.

I remember it being a pale malty beer with low to moderate sweetness and a slightly toasty malt flavor. The hops were of the german persuasion and I never thought they were overpowering...

Now it looks like the beer may have changed when they reformulated the recipe to include ingredients from their own farms... Because now it talks more about a reddish hue.

The only reason I've ever seen or heard for it being out of the Maibock style was the use of an ale yeast... But Maibock's are legitimately fermented as a top-fermenting german style.

For instance. http://meinsudhaus.de/bier-rezepte/obergaerige-biere/ Lists the Maibock's in their recipes for top-fermenting beers (ale's in the common american beer consumer lexicon).

Other german hobby brewer information sources provide information for both top and bottom fermenting bock beers while they only will use ale yeast for kölsch's and altbiers and will only use lager yeast for pilsners, helles, export, dunkels, and other lagers.

It's worth pointing out that bockbier was originally a northern german style. Only the bavarian beers were originally lagers. The bockbier originated in northern germany but Munich didn't like being left out so started brewing and marketing their doppelbock's that became eponymous with the style.

It is just as legitimate to use a clean ale yeast making a Maibock as it is a lager yeast... BUT it really should be lagered after the fermentation finishes to clean up. Just like the kölsch's and altbiers are lagered in Germany.

Dead Guy Ale was the closest representation I could find to the Maibocks I loved and drank the helles out of when I arrived in Dortmund in May.

 

I really enjoyed the ALDI maibock last year. I'm looking out for it every week and I'm going to stock up when it comes out... I'm still finishing up the dunkler bock I bought there a while ago.

But I don't think it's going to be available that early in April for this tasting.

 

I know you're talking bottled offerings, but this is available right now on draft--just in case you're out and about looking for another Maibock to enjoy.

 

The times I've had Dead Guy (and I drank it from the time it first came out many years ago), it was full of warm-fermented esters, high caramel malt character (not terribly attenuated), and hopped more-so than any Maibock I ever had -- and not with German Hops. As said, When I first tried Fat Tire it reminded me of Dead Guy.

This is a very uncommon method of brewing a Maibock, I have the feeling they may be using the top-fermenting yeast for expedience, much as so many smaller breweries and brew-pubs do here.

I don't know that this can be verified, as "lager" strains were in use before they were identified. Besides, when the "new" process of fermentation was identified (and said to be the best new thing in brewing) and gained popularity (how many years ago?), just about every brewery in Germany switched over. So, unless you're saying Rogue purposely brewed a 16th or 17th century style Bock, I would (again) point out that their product tastes nothing like Maibocks I've tasted during the past 2 centuries.

Therein lies the Dead Guy trouble: It's estery and doesn't have a clean aftertaste.

You drank Dead Guy in Dortmund? Or did you mean when you came back here? If so, you should have moved to the Midwest, there are a lot of good (bottom-fermented) Maibocks in this area, and have been for a long time.

 

Yeah, but you guys have more demand for German beer on tap than we do down here. Hard to find much of anything, other than HB Weizen.

 

To Note: I haven't had Dead Guy Ale ever since I graduated from college in 2009. I drank it a lot after coming back from Germany because it was the closest beer I could find to the maibock's I was drinking there. Since I moved after graduating college Rogue was just a bit to overpriced for me to buy it over other options. They did NOT have any Rogue beers in Dortmund. I drank the Hövel's Hausbrauerei maibock and Wenker's Brauhaus maibock... Coming back I was searching out beers similar. Summit's Maibock was much to dry and hoppy for what I was looking for. The Einbecker Maibock was also drier than I was wanting and I felt a bit more bland.

But anyways.

Eh, I couldn't taste fruity esters in Dead Guy... But I think they're to similar to sweet malt flavors I've never been able to identify them anyways. Maybe the hop flavor mellowed on the trip to Texas because I could never find any hop flavor in it anytime I tried it. Looking at the ingredients they say now list proprietary hop names but I really thought they didn't really start up the Rogue Farms until after I left college... At least their beer Dirtoir I thought was their first beer with their own hops and that was released right as I graduated. I don't know when they started growing and malting their own grain though.

Maybe fresher the hop flavor is more pronounced, and I don't know what hops were used back when I was drinking it...

I do think that virtually all commercial breweries in Germany brew their bocks bottom fermenting... But there is seemingly an acceptance for top-fermenting yeast in bocks and schwarzbiers that are not found in any of the other lager styles.

I first thought it may have been a way to cut corners and produce beer in shorter time as you suggest but I have never been able to find top-fermenting recipes for the other lager styles like I am for bocks and schwarzbiers... Why would the smaller breweries be trying to cut corners on only those 2-3 beer styles while it is not accepted in the others?

 

With bigger malts in many Bocks, and roastier malts in Schwarzbier, maybe they feel they can more easily hide some of the fruitier and sweeter characters of warm-fermenting yeasts. Add to that a good cold lagering time and you may be able to get by with an "ale" yeast in those beers. The delicate character of Pilsners easily becomes Kölsch using the same scenario, I'd guess. Even as you say, you are hard-pressed to separate sweet malt character from ale yeast esters.

I have an old home-brew book that makes recipe suggestions for Bock. In the section on yeast it states:
"If the brewer is interested in attempting the reproduction of beers from previous centuries, there is room for greater "creativity." (emphasis mine) Before the middle 1800s, single cell cultures were unknown and mixed cultures of ale (sic) yeast were the rule. Lagering has always been practiced to some extent, though, with regard to these styles, so an ale strain that is cold-tolerant is important."

It goes on to make certain suggestions for commercially available yeasts, but it's clear to point out that they are good at cold temps and do not produce high levels of esters or diacetyl.

The author also suggests a brewer may want to attempt older versions of beers that used wild yeast (i.e sours), but this seems to take things just a little too far for me. I like the current result of the (Mai)Bock evolution: Clean, bready, smooth, and easy to drink. If I want a sour, I'll look for Gose or Lambic. If I want high esters, there are plenty of good English-style ales to be found.

 

Be interesting to see what the local brewmaster conjurs up for a Maibock. IIRC, last year's wasn't the same as the HB import bottles.

FWIW -- I just dug into one of my "spillover" cases of my beer stash -- a case I'll drop extra bottles into when I need more room on the regular supply shelf. Found 2 leftover bottles of Summit Maibock I found in Wisconsin a couple weeks back. So yeah, that one's out too.

Having one now and it has a considerably higher hop flavor and bitterness than the typical Maibock. Aside from that, the home-grown Moravian malts add a nice traditional character you don't always get in U.S. brewed German-styles.

 

Agreed, but I would still recommend as a good, enjoyable beer.

 

I'd wonder why dunkels and märzens don't seem to have the same acceptance at top-fermenting though. They are definitely styles with malt flavors that would cover up esters... But they are styles from bavaria which heavily relied upon the cold bottom fermentation. The northern german breweries heavily kept their warmer top-fermenting beers until the Reinheitsgebot was forced on them in the 19th century.

I just think there is a bit more variation in the maibock style. As the World Beer Cup guidelines show... The helles bock's can be quite hoppy. They list a max of 38 IBU's while the pilsner is only 40. And other than the pilsner the hellesbock is the only german style that allows more than a low hop flavor/aroma... It allows medium-low.
Sweet malty character is often evident FG can be as high as 1.020 so a bit lower attenuation or 1.012 so higher attenuation.
The guidelines also allow for fruity esters although they should be low.

The maibocks I had in Dortmund were on the lower attenuation end of the spectrum for me. Einbecker was higher.

It appears that you prefer the higher attenuating ones... I agree with most beer styles but I loved the full bodied fairly sweet maibock's I had... The biggest question I had was how they got an initial sweetness but it didn't stick around with me.


Would it be worthwhile including beers that aren't expected to fit the style exactly to see where they miss the mark?

 

Not necessarily, they're both delicate, elegant styles of beer in which fruit esters and diacetyl would really stand out. Even the juicy Munich malts in a good Helles can lean to fruit-like -- add warm fermenting yeast and the twist could be disastrous. I mentioned Kölsch before, think of that slight fruit note that you get in really fresh Kölsch. That's where the cold lagering and mild yeast help.

I like them clean so that the malt characters are the spotlight. Attenuation can help, but low-profile yeast and good mashing are the key.

I think that's been suggested by @TongoRad , and yes -- a good idea. Comparing the Dead Guy to an HB Maibock to a Schell's Maibock would be very enlightening.

 

BTW -- is the Feldschlösschen from Aldi in the range of those you had in Dortmund? I noticed that it was a bit heavier (thicker) than most of the Southern German Maibocks I'd had -- even Einbeck's.

Nonetheless, I thought it was a well-made beer and well in style.

 

Seeing this thread yesterday got me all excitable about spring's arrival so I practically jogged to the packy, hoping to find some Troegs Cultivator. No such luck... and the place doesn't carry Berkshire Brewing beers, so their maibock wasn't in evidence either. The closest thing they had was, indeed, Dead Guy.

I came home with a four-pack of Castle Island's Mo' Pils.

But I remain vigilant. I love bock season and I really wish Pretty Things would leap back to life and put out another round of their Bocky Bier and their Lovely Saint Winefride.

 

Maibocks for the win