Why no Love for Stone?

Small breweries popping up with interesting and sometimes outstanding or world-class beer = absolutely and point taken! Unfortunately not everyone has the time, freedom, or luxury to pursue or trade for the new options - it's time and resource consuming. If I need to make a quick craft beer run to the store, Stone is usually a pretty solid bet, (IMO) - but like any beer, when watching the best by dates, they produce some consistently solid stuff. I'm naturally going to gravitate towards the interesting stuff like you, but, 'boils down to a matter of time and resources. ~ Not everyone's gig.

 

I have a ton of respect for Stone due to their place in beer history as well as their unflinching, zealous commitment to freshness. They are also very consistent in producing good quality products in that I know if a new beer says "Stone" on it, I am assured that it will be at least solid.

That said, I do not purchase much from them anymore (honestly, I never really did in the first place). The only beers that I grab are Xocoveza, Enjoy By, Mocha IPA, and the occasional RuinTen. Their prices are far too high (especially for someone with the economy of scale power that they assuredly have), which has always been the main barrier for me. Worse, though, is that not only have they discontinued or changed all the beers that I loved from them (Old Guardian, Smoked Porter, IRS, Sublimely Self Righteous, Levitation, Pale Ale, IPA, and especially Ruination), they have replaced these with creatively bankrupt trend chasing. We do not need three thousand IPAs from you, Stone. They seem to be a brand without a focus (or at least with a misplaced focus: on IPAs alone), a brand that has lost its identity in this ever-changing, ever-challenging market; their weird offshoot brands only serve to make this identity crisis more obvious (Arrogant Bastard Brewing and Stochasticity, which they misfired on and later changed to be under the Stone name instead). I personally believe people would have come back around to their classics eventually, and it would have been fine to add a few new things (even IPAs) here and there (after all Enjoy By was new not so long ago); I just wish this "innovation" didn't come at the expense of truly great beers that they already had under their belt.

Also, Wussie Pilsner is an absolute abomination to the pilsner style. I cringe every time I see or hear someone say "Wussie is my favorite pilsner." It's just another IPA in the guise of a pilsner, which I should not have been surprised about. This is just another example of Stone jumping on the bandwagon as well, since Wussie released just as it as clear that lagers were gaining steam.

I will give them huge props for the amazingly well-priced liquid brilliance that was Double Bastard: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. That beer was a revelation and reminded me that Stone actually can still do something truly interesting and challenging. As I said, I think they're a very solid brewery, but they've made so many questionable decisions as of late (overreaching with their expansions, changing and discontinuing beers, creating new brands for no reason, laying off employees en masse, etc.) all the while being too expensive and too predictable, that I just don't purchase their beers outside of a select few. I'll always give a new beer from Stone a look (and maybe a chance in a mix-a-six), but when it's another IPA, I just yawn and move on.

 

This is exactly it. Arrogant Bastard was probably the first craft beer that I ever sought out due to it's fame and notoriety. Granted, I thought it was disgusting because I had no palate whatsoever at that time, but I didn't give up on it. I fell in love with the labels first, and then over time, the beer. Stone and Dogfish Head hold as my first true loves, and my support for both continues to this day. Stone feels a little gimmicky to me sometimes, but I still buy the beers that appeal to me every time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

They must have thought it was really good because they also bottle released that beer.

 

They have been my favorite brewery since I got into craft beer and still the brewery I buy the most beer from. Their quality and consistency is top notch. I'll continue to buy their beer as long as all the classics dont get phased out by adjunct beers but the trend is alarming.

 

BTW: Anyone know when this year's version of Woot Stout is going to be released?

 

Yes, it was sublime.

 

I wish Stone well in Europe, I think they will be worthy representatives of the American craft scene.

Used to buy a lot of Stone, I don't nowadays due to price, my changing palate, and even though they are fresh they can't compete with the freshness I can get easily from locals that make equally good or better beer.

I think American beer culture is changing, and that Stone's success here at home has peaked. Perhaps a new generation of beer lovers will embrace them, but I think the future is small, fresh, better, and local.

 

Agreed.

Although the "local craft beer scene" is a great thing and is certainly here to stay, Big Craft (which Stone is a part of) is here to stay as well. Don't think that just because most craft beer geeks turn up their noses at a lot of these breweries because they're not on the bleeding edge of "innovation" that they aren't successful. Stone will be here MUCH longer than most of the small craft breweries that have opened over the past 5 or 6 years.

 

Well, you disagree with points I didn't make, so perhaps you will agree with the point I did make, that Stone's popularity has peaked in America? I don't see them picking up market share in future. You do?

As far as the local scene goes, that is our history and I believe it is here to stay. Worth noting that the segment grew over 60% in a contracting beer market IIRC last figures I saw. Pretty sure Stone and the other national craft brands did not.

 

Sorry 'bout that.

And, no, I don't think Stone has reached critical mass in the US or North America. The new brewery in Richmond will allow them to produce quite a bit more beer than they are currently and I believe that the demand is there for that increase in production.

 

I agree 100% with that statement.

I am not as certain on this aspect as you seem to be. I suppose in another few years we will obtain an 'answer' here.

FWIW my prediction is that two years from now Stone will not be brewing at the full capacity of their breweries. I am in complete agreement with @cavedave on "I think American beer culture is changing" and it is my guess this will impact future sales of Stone beer in a negative manner.

Cheers!

Cheers!

 

Indeed.

That's possible. It's also possible that it'll affect it in a positive way. US beer culture is, at present, growing in two ways. More small, local breweries are opening AND larger breweries are expanding and selling more beer. Can both of these things continue? I don't know, but I'd guess that whatever ceiling there is, is not far off.

 

I still got love for Stone and their arrogant ways. I think it comes down to the gazillions of brewerys we have these days.

 

Yes they can if:

• The existing craft beer market of folks increase the amount of beer they purchase
• Or, the number of folks who represent the craft beer market significantly expands

It seems to me that the number of folks who purchase craft beer is close to being a 'steady state' value but we will only know more next year, the year after that and so forth.

Cheers!

 

The true high risk reality for breweries like Stone are when most of the small locals can and bottle at same/less costs as store bought shelf beers. When most "at home" beer consumption is local beers across the country then it's pretty much game over for the large ones. That's why AB and other big players have lobbyists to keep state laws to prevent local breweries from putting existing process of beer industry in jeopardy.

 

Most non-beer-geek types (which is the majority of the craft beer drinking demographic) aren't going to their local brewery to take beer home. They're buying beer at the store to take home.

Big breweries will sell a lot of beer whether there are small, local breweries or not. Would they sell more if there weren't as many? Sure. But I don't know of any state that limits the sale of beer out of a brewery's door. If anything, the more recent laws have been IN FAVOR of small breweries, not against them.

 

They are all about the Marketing and less about great beer. The beer is good to very good but nothing great IMHO. The Marketing is fantastic!!!

 

You seem to contradict yourself there.

If this was 2005, I'd agree with you, as the "You're not worthy" mantra was in full-effect then. Greg was in bars and at festivals extolling the virtues of whatever Stone was doing at that point in time.

Now, they just make very solid beers which are centered around excellent concepts. On top of that, they are all about getting fresh beer to the consumer. That's the best marketing any brewery can do.

 

^^Sorry but I do not see a contradiction in my post. Stone is and always will be about the Marketing - to seem rather than to be. Cheers!