Toppling Goliath Releases and Updates

Not to my memory. My first pour of Sue smelled exactly like a sweaty locker room, taste was solid, but who wants that smell? Batches improved massively over time, with a peak around 2014/2015, at least around the La Crosse area. This seem to coincidence with Mike leaving TG for the first time, so I figure the last batch he oversaw he put all his effort into. Then he left and regluar Sue kinda changed permanently.

So maybe your thinking after this time? Or I just don't talk to enough Sue drinkers...

 

Best theory yet. When Mike left TG, they stopped storing the hops in his sock drawer!

 

Just had Sosus last night. Honestly, didn't do much for me at all.

Still have a Hopsmack and FSM to try though.

 

Had 2 bottles each of Hopsmack and Sosus in the past month. First experience was good not great, second experience was better for both. Seems cliche, but Sosus seemed better as it warmed up. I enjoyed the 4 bottles of FSM I had.

 

Personally, I thought this latest version of Hopsmack sucked. I seem to be in the minority though.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more.

I was a Hopsmack hater during it's first runs (5-6 years ago), and I've really enjoyed every batch since it came back. I love how this current iteration is both hazy and actually has some bite to it.

 

Different palettes I guess. I had it at TG and also a bomber and didn't like it. That's just me though.

 

Yeah, I'm not saying you're wrong. It's all pretty subjective. It just surprised me as this was probably my favorite batch of Hopsmack yet.

 

I don't understand how people can compare beers from "14/15" to something you had last week.

A: These beers are made for ingredients that can change dramatically from year to year. Hops especially are different every single year!! They're probably big enough that they might have a certain lot they choose from every year but that doesn't mean anything from one year to the next. Weather conditions have a huge impact on hops. Citra can taste completely different one year to the next. This is even more magnified with beers like Sue/Sosus/etc that rely on hops so immensely for their profile. Malt can also be very different from year to year depending on weather conditions in the areas where it's grown. The big breweries have to spend millions upon millions of dollars every year to ensure their product always tastes the same. No one in craft can afford that. Nor should they even want to.

B: Your palate changes dramatically. In 14/15 there probably weren't many beers that really tasted like the stuff TG was doing, especially in this area. Now so many people are trying to make "juicy" hoppy beers. The TG stuff might not stand out as much as it used to.

I would guarantee you money that the recipe for FL Sue and Decorah Sue is almost exactly the same. Most brewers aren't all that guarded with their recipes, especially for hoppy beers as the recipe isn't really what makes the biggest difference....It's the process. The difference is process and equipment. Brewhub uses a centrifuge right? Decorah definitely doesn't have a centrifuge. That alone could make a huge difference. Size of the fermenters is totally different and has a huge impact on how yeast performs, etc etc. Trillium for instance has now gone through three different yeasts since their expansion to find one that works best in their new fermenters. They also might have some unique form of Hop delivery during fermentation that might be unique to TG or TG might not want to release some aspects of their process to a contract brewer who could then implement it with other breweries. I would imagine there is some sort of protection when it comes to that but I'm not 100% sure how contract brewing works.

There's a chance that every beer will be different when the new brewery opens. It's going to be a completely new brewhouse right? There will be all sorts of awesome new gardgets and all sorts of cutting edge equipment. Chances are good if they can get the hop contracts the new versions of will be even better than anything you remember.

 

I'm just glad to have the opportunity to grab TG bombers at my local liquor store! I have no "history" with TG beers to compare to, but here is how I rank the bombers I've had:

1. Sosus
2. Double Dry Hop PseudoSue (Citra)
3. King Sue
4. Fire Skulls & Money
5. Galaxy Dry Hopped PseudoSue
6. HOPSMACK!
7. Xhops (Teal Label)
8. ZeeLander
9. Light Speed
10. Pompeii

Don't read a lot into the ranking itself. Except for Pompeii and Light Speed, each beer is not that far from the one just above it (and I suspect something was off with the Pompeii I reviewed, judging by other reviewers comments.)

 

Water quality is also a huge factor, no? From what I hear, the water in Decorah is pretty well suited for beer making.

 

It seems to me that is one of the reasons people DO compare year over year batches rather than a reason they should not.

 

Your joking right??? Clark himself has said they guard Sue recipe like nothing else, and you think they just handed it over to Brewhub.... LOL. Sorry to tell you but the FL recipe is not the same and never has been. FL sue was specially designed by Mike to be exactly what it is. A cheap imposter, becuase who wants their baby brewed by someone else, other than other brewers in house where he still has some control over finished product.

 

If true, that'd be a dumb business decision in my opinion.

 

Wasn't that claim some years before they decided to expand via contract brewing?

How do you know? What is your source for this?

This is in direct conflict with itself. If the brand is so valuable, you don't make a cheap impostor and call it the same name.

 

Yea, I mean why would you hand over a recipe to the people you just entered into contract with to extend distribution of your product and brand? You are two for two in this thread.

 

That makes zero sense from a business and branding standpoint. I would bet it's the same recipe and it's as close as brewhub can get it with their water and process. All depends on the definition of recipe. But I would almost guarantee you Mike could hand out that "recipe" to a bunch of different brewers and none of them could make it taste like Sue. It's all about the process, HOW you make the said recipe. Especially for a simple pale ale. Anyone isolated yeast or yeasts from Sue? Wouldn't surprise me if that's a huge part of the difference that he might not be willing to part with.

 

So, you think not giving them the true recipe is a joke but holding back on the yeast strain used is a possibility...sure.

 

Yeah you're right that didn't make much sense, my bad. I just wonder if there is more than one yeast in Decorah Sue (or other hoppy offerings), if it's possibly bottle conditioned or if they're using a second yeast for natural carbonation. Anyone brew beers with harvested yeast and get weird results?

 

I think suggesting that they bottle condition Sue shows you should probably stop speculating.