Balanced, hybrid-ish NE IPA?

All about time too right? So if I toss my FO hops in and cool right away, I'm at 200/180/160 for a hot minute. I mean, I'm cooling from boil to about 100 in about 5 minutes... if that. I would definitely agree with you if I'm steeping for a duration of time.

 

Yes and no. I think it's an easy style because how hard is it to chuck a shit load of hops? But honestly, I think I find far more meh to bad examples of the style than I do good. I think it's a lot tougher to make a balanced example. There is a very fine line for me with these. Typically, they're usually overly "juicy" (I freaking hate that description btw) and not enough bitterness to keep them interesting and drinkable. Or they're incredibly gritty from yeast or other proteins because they're "unfiltered."

 

I recall from past posts your stated preference for Trillium brewed versions and now I understand why you have that opinion.

Cheers!

 

Yeah... And my opinion confirmed itself after our NE trip last year when we went to all the big NE producers... Trillium was easily #1, no question... Plenty of great breweries out there, but man... Trillium is easily another level and my favorite IPA/DIPA producer, no question (for me!)

How about yourself? Are you more sweet/juicy or the variants that have more IBU behind them? I see you are from PA, have you been to Brew Gentleman in Pittsburgh? I was really impressed with their variants of NE IPA. It's been a while since we been though, we are hoping in the next few weeks...

Completely agree 100%... I always cringe when people discuss NE IPA recipes and I see trends like no bittering additions and FG's north of 1.014, adding flour, using 50% wheat/oats just for haze, etc...

I know everybody is different and sometimes people just want to make sweet, hop "juice"... But I still can't help but shudder a bit at the recipe or procedures. Given my experience brewing so many of this style, I have had ones with 300+ theoretical IBU's being described as straight "mango/pineapple juice with soft bittering" at homebrew club shares... I am shocked when I get feedback like that, especially knowing I dumped 3oz of 15% AA Columbus in for a 60min boil for nearly 100 IBU's right off the bat... Mix that with a 1.010-1.012 FG and a 300+ PPM sulfate water profile... It's crazy! People are surprised when I share details of my recipes, given they are so against the grain versus what people believe they should be... Not saying my recipes/techniques are the right way by any means, but given how spot-on my NE IPA/DIPA's have been I am just trying to share my experiences/techniques. I have drank my fair share of "research" as well, so I would say I am pretty experienced in the style and nailing the attributes from some of the better producers (Trillium, Alchemist, Bissell, Treehouse, Cellarmaker, Foundation, Brew Gentleman, Foam, etc...)

My personal PSA announcement... Don't be afraid to throw IBU's in your NE IPA's

 

You should also check out Dancing Gnome if you dig NEIPAs.

Gristhouse and Insurrection are also making excellent versions.

And if you guys need someone to drink with, I'm usually available.

 

I enjoy both: I enjoy drinking Tree House and I enjoy Trillium. I suppose as long as the beer has the attributes of a notable tropical fruit aroma/flavor, a creamy/velvety mouthfeel and he aspect that folks like to describe using the word 'juicy' that is an enjoyable beer for me. I suppose that for my palate the aspect of bitterness is of lesser concern?

I am from the Philly area and the local brewery that produced the so called 'NE' style IPA is Tired Hands. I have probably had 30-40 different brands of their cloudy IPAs. To be honest, as I type this message, I am uncertain how to characterize the level of bitterness of their various beers. It would seem that after experiencing the three attributes I mentioned above I simply to do not even consider bitterness?

Cheers!

P.S. @chipawayboy, do you have a 'position' on the level of bitterness of Cloudy IPAs?

 

Perhaps that might be how I would describe your beers? Do you think that the other attributes of a Cloudy IPA (i.e., Tropical fruit aroma/flavor/'juicy'/velvety mouthfeel) obfuscate the aspect of bitterness level?

Cheers!

 

I think people should just stop estimating IBUs altogether. Especially since isomerization isn't linear, so just because you add more hops doesn't mean that you have an equal amount more of IBUs.

 

Treehouse who a lot of people would say makes the "quintessential" NEIPA doesn't use wheat or oats, doesn't do crazy high CL levels, doesn't use 1318, and definitely doesn't use really low whirlpool temps. All things people say are essential to brew this style....

 

Dancing Gnome is on our to-visit as well next time we are in the area. Have not had any of their stuff yet!

 

I have always contended that esters and minerals tend to confuse the palate in these beers, add in high fg and it's a certainty.

 

Agreed, and that was basically my point: It's an easy style to brew (because the key is simply to use a ton of hops), but people make it harder than it has to be, which I think is what causes the major flaws you brought up. Lack of a balancing bitterness is caused by these absurdly lopsided (exclusively post-boil in some cases) hopping schedules. Gritty mouthfeel is caused by adding flour or leaving yeast in suspension. Off flavors are sometimes apparent by serving the beer too young and calling it "fresh".

Keep it simple, and this style is easy to get right. Start doing all this crazy stuff, and you open the door for flaws like so many commercials examples have.

 

How do you know that for certain? I have been doing consulting work for those guys for a little over 3 years and I have never been able to get anything out of them. They are very tight lipped and so is everyone that works for them.

 

Curious what kind of consulting?

I've always wondered if they just do the standard brewing 101 stuff but just do it incredibly well. I was reading a thread today about blending three different kinds of yeasts at difference ratios, adding them at different times and temps in an attempt to mimic their flavors. WTF. I feel like that would be incredibly hard to consistently do batch to batch. One of their main pillars is consistent beer. How do you continue consistency with crap like that?

 

I helped them get their wastewater permits at both sites which involved analysis of their brewery waste and assisting with technology selections.

 

Sweet! So, any insight of their magical water they use?

 

No. Like I said they are very tight lipped. They won't even tell me what they are brewing before it's released.

 

Dry Yeast. You weigh it, rather simple and very easy to replicate time over time. No one knows the ratios they use or when they use each yeast. That'll take a lot of time and experimenting if someone is going to attempt it.

 

I get that weighing dry yeast is easy. But they're talking about pitching one strain on day 1 at 64, then bumping temp to 78 on day two and pitch another strain, and on day 3 drop temp to 72 and pitch another strain. That might work well on a homebrew scale but how on earth do you change temps that fast when you're working with 7 barrel+ fermenters?

 

Do you have a link to that thread?

Odd, and probably very ineffectual, technique, from the looks of it.