Wolf's Ridge Brewing and Releases

I have not made one. Tbh I don't think I ever will, but I won't say never given the broad, fluid, and hard to define nature of the style. I do have a small amount of lupulin powder coming from the 2016 harvest I intend to work with. But it's in the spirit of experimentation and seeking better aroma and higher efficiency. Likely the beer will still be clarified when it's all said and done.

I grew up on West Coast IPAs, brewed them for years before coming to Wolf's Ridge, and still hold that as the ultimate in terms of what the best IPAs are, at least stylistically. While I haven't brewed a NEIPA I would strongly suggest that brewing a world class West Coast IPA is more difficult to do. I hold breweries like Fat Heads and Firestone Walker in the highest regard in respect to quality and execution.

I really enjoy "old school" NEIPAs like some Alchemist stuff (Focal more than Heady even), Hill Farmstead, Maine Beer, etc. But nowadays it seems what was once a NEIPA is not considered the same style as the forced-haze juice bombs.

As for the latter trend, I personally don't enjoy it often. That doesn't mean it's empirically bad or those brewers are wrong, it just doesn't suit my tastes. Most are very sweet, which goes against my very nature as an IPA drinker. To me it's a style that should be dry and also bitter. Not necessarily uncomfortably so, but the bitterness and dryness is what helps make those beers refreshing. So intense sweetness signals a flaw - under-attenuation - in an IPA.

I know that sweetness is often engineered or back added in some form intentionally, but nevertheless it doesn't agree with me.

You could say the same about the forced haze, tricks or otherwise, but like I said, I really enjoy the original hazy beers from the aforementioned breweries, though obviously they look pretty damn good compared to the chicken soup type murk that is trending upward these days.

The other thing that bothers me is all the additions. Many many many of the NEIPAs I've had taste like straight up pineapple juice unless they make a public claim to some other fruit. Maybe it is some secret process, but I'd wager many breweries are fermenting with fruit juice or puree, even if it's not explicitly stated. Sometimes this can taste or smell pleasant, but I dislike the suggestion that hops created that flavor. This isn't an attack, it's just my single minded personal belief and preference. I know some breweries make real hazy IPA without any fruit or lactose or vanilla, at least some of the time. And generally I prefer those purer beers.

I could go on but it must be apparent by now that the style just isn't for me. I don't brew stuff just to join a trend and I don't brew beer I personally don't enjoy drinking. Hell, by most accounts Howling Moon at 10% could be called a Triple IPA but to me that's just another gimmick. Stone was releasing a new 10% DIPA a month a couple years ago. Now some 9% beers are considered "triple" for some reason. Just seems silly to make up a new category to convince people the beer is better due to the alcohol content.

Recently someone was lambasting a comment about bitterness and how NEIPAs are less bitter and that the IBU war was over. That may be (I disliked that trend, too), but I'd argue the new dick swinging war is based on:
Outrageous references/childhood throwbacks
Level of turbidity
Level of added fruitiness
ABV and/or the creation of new style names

Same idea where brewers are trying to outdo each other on the assumption the consumer will prefer their more extreme version of an existing style.

I do recognize there's demand for NEIPA right now, and despite Hoof's success there's a supply shortage in this town - if there wasn't people wouldn't fight over tickets and allotments and be traveling so far so often, etc. Assuming of course the other local haze beers were just as good, of course. I get that there's demand and respect what people are asking of us.

I'm sure if we did make NEIPA it would sell like hotcakes but I'd feel like I was only doing it as money grab.

As we continue to improve our traditional IPAs I hope some who've written us off because our IPAs aren't as good as others (I'd argue my DIPA isn't even the same style by a longshot as a NEIPA of any strength) will give us another shot and consider our intent when making a call on the quality of the liquid.

So in short - no we won't brew one. To me, that's ok. And it's ok if people would rather get their hops elsewhere. I am happy building a reputation for nearly every other style (minus kettle sours ).

Cheers!

 

I showed up late last time, no lines, plenty of room, great taps, easy access to whatever bottles. Plan to do the same this time around, it was very chill. Almost forgot about the bottles I was having so much fun in the tap room.

 

I will say that your cream ales are the best in the world

 

As much as I love Wolf's Ridge, it blows my mind that there are such intentions to never brew a NE IPA. I of course respect that, but they don't have to be under attenuated, overly sweet or have hazy tricks added. They can be just as bitter with complex hop profiles as west coast IPA's... Many NE IPA attempts do fall flat (looking at you, Platform), but go grab a variety of Trillium IPA/DIPA's fresh and then report back. There is a reason they are so popular (the style) and as a business, for any brewery, it seems silly to let that sales opportunity go to waste. If you are a talented brewer, you can surly create an amazing variant of the style, as vague as the style may be. Hell, have fun with it and see what happens.

Hoof obviously is creating the best in the state (of that style), but not near the level of legit NE IPA's out of NE. While NE IPA's in theory are quite simple, so many breweries do them poorly.

Just seems silly to me a brewery such as Wolf's Ridge that does so many different styles, turns their nose up at this one. I can see if you do lagers, stouts or German styles exclusively for example and the doesn't fit in the portfolio. But you guys practically do almost everything. So why draw the line at NE IPA?

 

I clearly said that I personally do not like the style people are asking me to brew. If I don't like it I don't brew it. Otherwise my heart isn't in it and the product suffers.

This is a reflection of my values, which I take dead seriously. It doesn't diminsih those of others, but it guides what I brew and how I brew it. It's why I don't use extracts, our lagers are real and spend 6 weeks in the tank, I use regionally appropriate ingredients regardless of cost, my sours are mixed fermentation and not kettle soured, etc etc etc.

I was simply trying to provide an honest answer to a question that is rarely answered by brewers who do not brew NEIPA. Trust me, there are more brewers who agree with me than anyone here knows. In industry only functions I hear the discussions almost every time.

Also, you realize that you're simultaneously judging me for not agreeing with your view/desire here and shirking my right to form my own opinion and run my brewery as I see fit.

Why would I brew 7 styles of lager a year and not one NEIPA? Because I love lager and dislike NEIPA. I respect the fuck out of hyper traditional styles with long history. It's a huge challenge to brew those beers to taste even close to the best German examples.

We do weird Cream Ale variants all the time, so maybe that confuses people who want us to brew NEIPA. The thing is, aside from how I enjoy the Cream Ales more than NEIPA, they're still ALL built on the foundation of our hyper traditional American Cream Ale. I don't design a grain bill to become a coffee beer. I design a classic style and if I want to add coffee to it I choose the right bean, roast, and proportion to suit the existing beer.

This is all beside the point. Many brewers who keep silent on this do so because the people who love NEIPA often refuse to understand why some of us might not agree with them.

Why is it a personal offense to you if I refuse to brew any given style? Would you care as much if I said I have no intention of ever brewing: American Barleywine, Weizenbock, anything with cherry wood or peat in it, or kettle sours? I'm sure there are more. My decisions are not arbitrary and even if they were what does it matter?

I'm not the first and not the last to say they don't intend to brew a NEIPA. I hope it doesn't make me less of a brewer or a bad businessman now that the horrible secret is out.

 

Um, did you read his post? He already answered this question, thoughtfully and in detail.

 

I swear I'm not Spider889's alternate account.

Also, since NEIPA is such an imposible style to define why don't you just drink Howling Moon and call it a NEIPA? Maybe then you'd actually enjoy it.

 

Hey, don't get me wrong... Mad respect for brewing what you love and not brewing things you don't. I get that. Wish more people followed that ideology.

I am also not "offended" by any stretch of the imagination. I suppose I am more confused just because there is such a strong devide on that type of beer.


Not trying to stir anything up nor am I "one of those" NE or its crap type people. Like you, German lagers and many of the more 'unpopular' styles excite me more than NE IPA's. But it still is interesting to dig a bit into brewers minds on their decisions. And yes, you did elaborate well the first time, but I also finished up a bottle share last night before surfing here and may have not been 100%

 

Now THIS is a response I love seeing. Thank you for discussing the nuances of the style, trends in brewing, and overall hype within the local market.

The reason I asked is because Wolf's Ridge excels at many styles and I have no doubt that you could brew an excellent NEIPA. Howling Moon is an exceptional DIPA and I love that I can find it fresh on shelves, whereas I've found it difficult to find competitors as fresh (obviously there are some exceptions like CBC).

I think the package and release method of these sticker-laden pint cans begets the hoarding, long lines, and trade mongering. People do not want to miss out on the next best "one-off", creating the high untappd ratings and unwarranted hype.

I've been listening to the "Steal This Beer" podcast (highly recommended) and they drink blindly out of black glasses to analyze a beer for face value and not for hype. I truly wish we could all experience beer in this way to remove unwarranted praise for mediocre brewing.

My palate is still evolving and though I love a good NEIPA, I'm now appreciating many traditional styles as well (I could not say that a year ago). Thank you for brewing in an excellent fashion and for making the beer that *you* want! For as much crap as we give brewers for selling out to big beer conglomerates, the same concept can apply to brewing beers for the cash out, rather than for the art.

All this is to say... keep doing you and I'll keep drinking. Cheers!

 

Side note-- Brad had a similar discussion post in the Jackie O's thread and I was looking to pick your brain in a similar manner. Thank you for giving more information than I would have hoped.

 

Your two posts on this page have only confirmed why Wolf's Ridge is one of my two favorite Ohio breweries (Jackie O's being the other).

 

I guess some people here haven't tried fresh Earthrise or Howling Moon. WR is far from just German, stouts, and cream.

 

And for some brewers there much more to brewing than simple hype.

I'm not trying to call any industry folks out as being noobs, but setting hype aside and not using that as a goal is something that really only comes with experience and involvement within the industry (seminars, visiting other experts at their brewery etc.)

 

IMO some folks brew because of their passion for the "art" of beer whereas some folks brew to make money. If you are in the latter then ride the hype train cash cow as long as you can. Im fine with either motive as at the end of the day we are all just trying to keep the bills paid while enjoying some good beers a long the way.

 

It's all good. As you can likely tell I've been asked that question before. Like many times before.

I have free reign at Wolf's Ridge so if I truly wanted to brew a style (sometimes cost and time as an exception like a spontaneous fermentation) I would have brewed it by now. There are a ton of other styles I want to brew and haven't gotten around to yet or don't out of acknowledgement that it wouldn't sell very fast too: Dunkel, Smoked Porter, American Stout, Gruit, etc. Some are too similar to stuff I already brew: Kolsch and Pilsner are sort of covered already by Cream Ale and Helles Lager.

So yeah in short if I wanted to I could. It might be the slow burn towards fame by neglecting the new hotness, but I'm proud of what we're making and I love drinking it. We're winning medals left and right across the board and have a lot of respect from industry people. While those things don't sell beer, it speaks to quality and consistency. And I believe quality and consistency sells beer, at least in the long term.

Plus, we can't make enough beer for current demand as it is. So while selling a batch of canned IPA out the back door would be slightly more profitable and a quicker turn, it isn't necessary. It would also not help me keep 20 beers on in the taproom or maintain good relationships with the stores, bars, and restaurants that buy our beer regularly. It would alienate a good chunk of our regular customer base who doesn't want to wait in line, fight over tickets, or only have access to Driftwood once a month.

It's just not a model we're set up to exploit regardless of my personal tastes. And demand increasing doesn't help since we have virtually no room to add tanks in our current space, so it's not a simple equation of sell beer faster = buy more tanks = make more beer.

Finally, while we've not jumped on the haze craze, we're consistently tapping into the premium style market and the only local brewery doing frequent releases of barrel aged beer and stouts. Hopefully soon to also be more recognized for our oak aged sour program. So imo we're still doing a lot to tap into the beer nerd dollar and cater to their tastes.

 

Great discussion! As Monkish can attest, never say never I do love Howling Moon and your other hoppy ales, and since you have already added coconut, it's only one more step to the tropical island lol. Anyway, you do you. It's working well enough already.

 

Haha though I believe they originally said "no IPAs" which is much more broad never to manage in this environment.

 

Amen!! Preach brother! You keep making actual beers and we will keep buying them.

 

What I read is he is drawing the line at what currently seems to constitute a NE IPA. Since he specifically referenced enjoying "old school" NE IPAs (aka, actual IPAs) like Alchemist, Maine Beer, and Hill Farmstead, I would say you may indeed see a NE style beer from them at some point. Just not the fruit smoothies that most breweries are making now. Even the ones who used to make old school versions. Cough, Hoof, Cough, Cough...

 

4 new infusions being tapped tomorrow

Edit, day old Earthrise is an infusion. It's infused with freshness.