Imperial Stout recipe feedback (again)

That's a freakin HUGE grain bill for a 5 gallon batch!

When I put your numbers into a brewing calculator, I dont get the same predicted FG and OG with your predicted 55% efficiency...curious what calculator you are using to formulate your recipe? I got an OG of 1.124 and FG of 1.031 with 12.18% ABV at 75% attenuation.

I would dry that joker out a little by replacing some of the MO with a 100% fermentable like dextrose or honey...that FG is so high (especially if you get 1.050 as you predict) its going to be thick and so sweet that it will most likely be undrinkable. I would want the FG down closer to the 1.020 range personally.

That's a boat load of dark grains as well...might lead to more astringency in the final beer and a muttled roast and chocolate aspect. I dont really see the need for the C-60 with all the roastiness from the dark grains being more dominant and you could ditch another one IMO as well. Some of these dark grains will compete for the flavor profile in the final beer as they have somewhat differing qualities. I dont think Carafa I has any chocolate flavor in it at all myself, so I'd drop that Pale Chocolate/Carafa I too if it were my beer.

I'm shocked that you arent going to add any cacao nibs or other form of actual chocolate since you are looking for a cocoa/chocolate heavy beer. You will get more of an actual chocolate flavor from nibs than you will from the grains alone IMO. Dry nib it with a pound of nibs and you wont be dissapointed!

A couple of things as well...

Pale Chocolate and Carafa I are different grains, didnt know if you were listing them as the same grain or as an optional grain...just didnt want you to use the wrong grain by thinking those were the same grains. I had never heard Midnight Wheat called Chocolate Wheat as well, but after Googling, I see that they are the same thing.

You cant make a starter of 05 or 04 as they are dry yeast...you can rehydrate, but dry yeast doesn't lend itself to starters.

 

My most chocolately brew had the following grainbill (5gal OG 1.093 FG 1.027)
13# Golden Promise
2# Brown Malt
.5# Golden Naked Oats
.5# Pale Chocolate
.5# English Crystal 77
.38# English Chocolate
.25# English Crystal 45
.25# English Crystal 150
1# D180 Syrup added at peak fermentation

It was plenty dark, had a lot of dark fruit character that I really like in the higher end dark chocolates. Chocolate flavor was around say, a 65% cocoa bar. I'd also say that using an English yeast that will give you some fruitiness will help.

 

Was planning on just responding myself, but you've addressed all the things that I was wanting to, so I'll just respond to those.

This is a stellar idea. D90 or D180 would be a nice touch, as @MrOH suggested. Just add them at high krausen when the yeast can handle the simple sugar infusion better and to avoid osmotic shock.

He could certainly simplify this grainbill and get very similar results by just choosing one chocolate malt. I like the darker crystal malt in there, but usually I go with C120 along with the Special B that he has and I like even more of that malt, but YMMV.

As you said, carafa isn't going to give you any chocolate character, but it is going to give you a darker beer. I don't know if he wants that or not, but I like my big stouts to be as black as night, so I like to use it.

I also like his idea of adding some Munich to his grainbill.

Yeah, unless he's trying to acclimate them to a high gravity environment, there's no reason to make a starter. Just pitch another sachet, if you really want to, but there's really no need to even do that.

Not sure why he's pitching both yeasts, though. Any input on that?

 

Better attenuation of the US-05 and the little bit of character from S-04?

I personally don't like S-04. US-05 is such a "naked" yeast that I don't like it for stouts. I think a big whompin' starter of a more characterful English yeast is the way to go, or brew up a dark mild with one and pitch on cake. London III would actually be great if fermented cool

 

That's what I was thinking, but there are better choices for a HUGE beer like this. Pitch a strain with the character that you want first and then pitch a big starter of a highly alcohol tolerant yeast strain at high krausen, along with some extra fermentables, to get better attenuation.

 

I use a combination of strains for my I.S. WLP007 and WLP002. I like the blend of malty dryness of one and the esters of the other. Now would just one strain make a good I.S. probably but I still think there is a little more complexity with a blended yeast pitch.

 

I just want to point out that Dark Lord finishes higher than 1.050 and is very drinkable. I have a stout I brewed a couple years ago that finished pretty high, and it doesn't come across as overly sweet.
Also, if you're going for chocolate, dump the special b.
If you don't like esters and don't have temp control I would suggest us05 instead.

 

1.132 OG + London III with no temp control would be an unthinkable disaster haha. I use a blowoff tube on a 1.060 beer with London III.

 

Traditionally, Carafa = German and Pale Chocolate = British (usually)...there is a difference, despite what some random chart says. But by all means, do what you want with your beer, just dont be pissed when you dont get the results from the substitution grain as you would with the actual preferred grain.

Special B is going to give less chocolate and more raison/fig/dried dark fruit IMO...not something I personally like in a big stout, but if that's what you want, go for it.

And again, you cant make a starter with dry yeast...can you describe how you are planning to make the "starter" you keep mentioning? Maybe we can clarify terminology. Pitch 3 packs of 05 if you want a clean beer with not "too much waters? from English yeast".

 

Probably "esters", but I'll let him clarify.

 

The 05 is just fine...it hasn't even expired yet so why worry? I direct pitch old 05 all the time in average and big beers and have no trouble with proper fermentation.

You sure are working hard with that starter when you could just spend another $3.50 and get another pack of 05 to double your cell count...or brew an average OG beer and then pitch on top of that cake like most people do. I just find your use of a 4L starter a little silly when 05 is so cheap and easy to get and doesnt even really require rehydration for maximum effect. Again though..each to their own.

 

Why can't you make one?

 

You can, but what's the use with dry yeast being so cheap? Most people just rehydrate or direct pitch more dry yeast than 1 pack not make a starter. My bad...I should have been more clear for sure. I was implying It's a waste to do it. It's much more time and effort (and money in the long run if you factor in materials and how long a stir plate runs) effective to pitch another pack of dry yeast and skip the hassle IMO. The OP is obviously not concerned with price of this batch with such a big grain bill, so why not just buy another pack of cheap yeast to save the hassle and guarantee cell count.?

 

And what abv calculator is the best. The real one or the alternate?