Strange hop "off-flavor" spanning multiple breweries

I got a very similar experience just yesterday with a fresh can of Lazurite from Warpigs/FFF. While I like Cilantro, I know others think it tastes soapy. I equated this to that taste. It was soapy/florally. Really odd.

I also continue to get Garlic/Onions out of certain beers, example being most all Stone Enjoy By series, nearly all Knee Deep Beers, and also now Revision beers. I recently had Heretic's Make America Juicy again (NEIPA), and I described it as rotted mango with onion.

Odd.

 

If you really want to figure it out, theres plenty of experimentation that you could do to investigate. Look up which hops and ingredients are in the beers and which arent. Search out similar beers to see if the same thing happens. Drink more beers from those breweries to see if its connected to that. Drink beers at differing ranges of temperatures and make comparisons. Pay close attention to what you are drinking and eating before these beers.

 

I have been suffering from something like this for the past 6 months also. I love IPAs. However, certain ones...and it seems to be mosaic hops more often...are giving me a cat pee aroma and the taste is almost unbearable. It's weird to say the least.

 

Certain hops are high in a compound called 4MMP. Some individuals (e.g., you) perceive 4MMP as cat pee. I am fortunate that I do not.

Another hop high in 4MMP is Citra.

Cheers!

 

A buddy of mine had read that some people "smell" this and others do not. Guess I'm "lucky"....

 

Permit me to share a story with you.

I used Citra hops for the first time a number of years ago to make a Citra IPA. I 'road tested' the first bottle at around 3 weeks post the bottling date and my reaction was: Whoa!

There was a lot going on there!! I was able to finish that first bottle but I will admit that I was a bit concerned about this batch. I let the bottles 'sit' for another 2 weeks and viola: the beers were very tasty then. The principle flavor I picked up was tropical fruit flavors.

I took some of my Citra IPA (along with other homebrewed beers) to a party. Some of my hop-head friends requested the IPA. When they were both about 2/3rds through I asked them what they thought. To my surprise they both responded (almost in unison) they tasted cat pee. I was shocked to hear this. When they were done I asked if they would like another beer (as in a different brand that I brought). To my utter amazement they both requested another IPA.

 

The interesting thing about volatile thiols (sometimes also referred to as mercaptans) is that in order for them to be liberated, the yeast strain used has to have a specific enzyme, because they are aroma inactive when they are bound to cysteine or glutathione. That enzyme is carbon sulfur lyase. Not many yeast strains commonly used in the fermentation of beer have said enzyme or one that is very active, but there are high thiol releasing yeasts that have come out of the wine industry that do. Specifically ones that are usually used in the fermentation of Sauvignon Blanc.

What we really should look at in these cases in the amount of "free thiols" contained in each hop varietal. 4MMP is important, as along with cat pee it can also bring box tree and black currant characters, but it is a relatively small proportion of the volatile thiols contained in hops. Even more prevalent is 3MH (rhubarb, grapefruit) and 3MHA (grapefruit, passion fruit, guava). Makes sense if you look at which hops contain high levels of those two thiols.

I know that's a bit long-winded, but there's LOTS of awesome research coming out of France and Belgium on these chemicals. Research that can be directly applied to beer brewing and fermentation.

 

My wife is some of the ( 10%) or so of the population that thinks cilantro tastes soapy. Will not eat it. At all. A different gene I believe? OP, how's your gene pool? JK. Try this. Octoberfests and porters for a month? Then try some pale ales?

 

Don't know if it's a gene, in specific, but it's certainly a variation in chemical threshold.

 

Assumed by many these days to be genetic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/why-does-cilantro-taste-bad-like-soap_n_7653808.html

 

Would certainly like to see those studies that they mentioned, because the indicator seems to be a threshold issue, which wouldn't be a purely genetic explanation, but a variation in genetic expression.

 

Well to get to the Huff post level there have to be some reasonable background sources since they are usually fairly responsible in fact checking, etc.

But this link:

https://www.nature.com/news/soapy-taste-of-coriander-linked-to-genetic-variants-1.11398

contains some references and ought to be a good place to start digging.

 

Seems like a multifactorial issue. Neat stuff. Thanks for the link.

 

I find it interesting that beer drinkers never consider that it's their individual palate that may be affecting their perception of taste. It's always "they changed the recipe" or "are they all using the same hops?" or any other explanation besides "maybe it's just me." (Although the OP did consider that, but I get the impression he thinks it really isn't him.)

The human body is quite complex and many things can cause a change in sensations.

I sometimes get a licorice taste when drinking beers, but I really don't assume it's because brewers are adding licorice flavor.

 

OP... being a fellow Ohioan and seeing the list you provided... I've had a very similar issue this year and I'm starting to hypothesize that it's the freshness.

People have gone absolutely apeshit as far as how fresh they want their hoppy beers to be in the last year+ and brewers are listening, especially the ones you listed. On top of that, they're doing more dry-hopping (mystic mama new recipe for instance) and getting that stuff to the shelves a day after canning.

The first time I had a real issue with flavors your described was in the first batch of Creeper last year. I had it 2 days from bottling and it was a total drain pour. All I tasted was soap and had a major sting on my tongue. I was almost the only one in my group who felt that way though. Everyone else loved it. Super fresh Bodhi, same damn thing. Let both sit 2 weeks and I loved them. To me, too fresh on a lot of these hoppy beers leaves an even worse flavor to me than too old ones.

 

Unconditioned, "green" beer is definitely suboptimum for consumption. Few new consumers understand this, thus the "the fresher the better" craze.

 

Did you try consuming direct from bottle? Maybe the soap on your glass is causing some off flavors. Could be diet related also or sinus/allergy making your taste off. Or you just experience beer different than most and that is just you. I would experiment more and watch your health to see if maybe your nose is causing issue and giving you issues, etc. I know when I change my diet or have sinus issues my beers change flavor on me etc so my bet is that its something along those lines.

 

I regularly get onion from heavy mosaic and/or citra forward beers...that said, not always, it really is a roulette type situation. Which leads me to believe it may be specific growers or strains of the hops putting off varied flavors.

But what do I know, really?

 

Hops are very much like wine grapes in that they have terroir effects. The same hop variety grown in the Pacific Northwest and elsewhere (Michigan for example) will taste differently. Hop farmers (and brewers) will even tell you that the same hop variety grown in different areas of the same hop farm will have notable differences in aroma/flavor.

Cheers!