"This Is Why My Brewery Shut Down"

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by LeRose, Aug 25, 2017.

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  1. SCW

    SCW Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2004 New York

    In many ways you could say that Lagunitas once epitomized what craft was, so now that they've been kicked out of the club it makes you wonder what the purpose of setting these variable definitions does for the industry and its perception. There's a strange phenomenon in this industry where once you get too successful, you get kicked out of the club.

    Does anyone remember that in the 1990s before there was "craft" there was the term "microbrewery" ?

    The problem was they defined microbrewery as any brewery making 15,000 barrels or less. The issue, of course, is in the 1990s many breweries became successful so they eclipsed the 15,000 bbl mark. So once again, a victim of your own success, and you get kicked out of the club.
     
  2. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    And probably a lot of those homers are new at the craft beer scene and don't yet know what the beer should taste like. "Oh I'm drinking craft beer, therefore it's good and I like it."
     
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  3. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    Stats from the BA provide an interesting comparison of contract versus brewpub versus microbrewery versus regional. Microbreweries though growing are a small segment - its the Regional breweries that really providing most of the growth (on a volume basis).

    https://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/national-beer-sales-production-data/
     
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  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Except for the last year. You can turn off the other 3 categories, and see that the regional breweries went down last year.
     
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  5. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    How much of that is due to the breweries that lost their craft beer status? Since all those acquired breweries are growing - the analysis gets a little funky.
     
  6. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    That could be part of it, did they account for those in the stats year to year? But the biggest breweries were down last year. Go to the brewbound link in this article, after reading the article.
    https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...shock-top-are-to-blame-for-craft-beer-sa.html
     
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  7. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    Aware of the trends of the top craft brewers. The only exception in the article you site - since its now more than a year old - Yuengling (after cycling some big territory intros). Most of the loss is BBC, NBB and SN.
     
  8. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    But those two MillerCoors brands (created by Coors, bought by Miller in the 1980s, respectively) were never counted as "craft", so don't really apply to Sixpoint's criteria of "removing" barrelage from the Brewers Association "Craft" total.

    Which brewers were "kicked out of" what "club" once they brewed over the 15,000 bbl. limit? Neither the old Brewers Association of America (aka "the small brewers group") or the Association of Brewers (AHA's "craft" brewers org.) had such a membership rule that I recall. "Micro-brewery" was just an industry barrelage segment (it actually started at "<10k" which at the time meant basically "smaller than Anchor") - I doubt any brewer really mourned outgrowing that already kinda cringe-worthy designation by the late 1980s.
     
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  9. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    They were craft beers before the Brewers Association even existed. They were commonly referred to as craft before there was ever any kind of definition. I can remember a time that if it wasn't a Light American Lager (or ALL in Beer Advocate terms), it was a craft beer.

    The whole thing started in the 2007 when the Sandlot (Coors' brewery at Coors Field where Blue Moon Belgian White was first made) won 7 medals and was awarded North American Small Brewery of the Year. In apprecitaion, the Brewers Association changed the rule that the brewer category was a determined by the total volume of the parent - became know as "The Sandlot Rule".
     
  10. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Before The Brewers Association existed, there was the Institute for Brewing Studies/Association of Brewers, and they listed "Leinenkugel/sub. of Miller Brewing Co." as a "regional" brewery not a "craft-brewing company". And no one in 1988 when Miller bought Leinenkugel would have considered it "craft" - it was just another small brewer who brewed predominantly AAL beers.

    And "Blue Moon" has always been simply a brand owned by Coors (even if the recipe was created at Coors' Sandlot facility) - even when it was brewed by Matt, Hudepohl-Schoenling and Molson.

    Again, Sixpoint was discussing barrelage "removed" from the B.A. Craft totals, and neither of those fit that criteria, even if someone wants to claim that they were once "craft beers".

    That was the 2005 GABF (Port Brewing & The Lost Abbe won in 2007) but winning an award at the GABF was never dependent on being "Craft" or not - otherwise all those medals wouldn't have gone to beers from Pabst, AB, Miller, Coors, Stroh's, etc. over the years, either.
     
  11. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for the correction on the year. It just got me thinking that there was "Sandlot Rule" then the "Boston Beer Provision" in 2010. Wasn't implying it had anything to do with craft - as I said "small brewer versus large brewer (as well as the other 5 classifications). The GABF is in the Brewers Association purvey as is their definition of craft.
     
  12. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    No-one? Really? Is New Jersey on another planet? I Challenge you to walk up and down the street and ask people if Blue Moon or Leinenkugel (or any that got kicked out of the club) are craft beers - real people - not beer snobs or governing bodies with self-serving motives, but the people that drink 88% of the beer that is not made by an independent craft brewer.
     
  13. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    In 1988, no one in New Jersey had probably ever heard of "Leinenkugel" (well, other than me and a bunch of beer can collectors and a few Wisconsin ex-pats, I guess...).

    As for "Blue Moon" those of us willing to part with 50¢ (Fifty !@#$ Cents for a newspaper?) for the Times heard of a Coors "specialty" beer meant to compete with craft beers with that name...
    [​IMG]
    Again, I am referring to this (mythical) period when you claim that the two MillerCoors brands were considered "craft" by The Brewers Association and included in their statistics only to later be "removed".
     
    #73 jesskidden, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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  14. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I was talking about people - real people. Sorry if the other references and my poor communication skills confused anyone.

    Like the consumer survey in February of this year that named Blue Moon the 6th most influential CRAFT beer in America. Summer Shandy clocked in at 36 behind - I honestly do feel the pain - Not Your Father's Root Beer.

    So how about if I tried it this way: If all the brands that are considered to be defined as craft by most consumers were included in craft beer volume....then the craft beer trends would look different (the general vien of the original topic that's long since been lost and confused - do work for the Brewers Association? How else could this become so convoluted? :wink:
     
    #74 Haybeerman, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  15. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think your posts show why the term "craft" is bullshit. I've long held that the most well "crafted" beer in America is Budweiser. You can buy one anywhere, and not be able to tell which of their 13 breweries it was brewed in. That is excellent craftsmanship. Not sure why you're intent on including Coors as a "craft" brewery, although, you do live in Colorado, so, maybe.......
     
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  16. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I didn't think I stated Coors was a craft brewery - more like saying many think Blue Moon and many brands not considered craft by the BA definition used to calculate volume are craft beer. Again, sorry to have stated things in such a confusing manner. None of this was about the definitions, but just got sucked down a rabbit hole.

    Agree with comment on the quality control and craftsmanship of brewers like AB InBev, MillerCoors, New Belgium, Sierra Nevada, Oskar Blues, Laguanitas - and any others missed of the top of my head (I'm sure to get corrected) - that can produce a highly consistent, high quality product across multiple locations.
     
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  17. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought I was getting something later, linking to this article. My bad.
    https://www.brewbound.com/news/regional-brewers-hit-hardest-craft-slowdown

    The graphic is %, but a few % loss on the left has to be made up with a bunch of gains on the left. You can lol the data up in the New Brewer issue with volumes listed for 2016.
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Your point is valid. If somebody were to aggregate the volume of beer from Brewers Association defined craft breweries beer + the beers of Lagunitas, Ballast Point, AB High End, Miller Coors 'craft' breweries + Blue Moon + Shock Top + etc. then this 'definition' of craft beer volume would be significantly higher than what is reported by the Brewers Association.

    As you already know this is an exercise in politics. The Brewers Association have their agenda(s) in play here plus....

    I am confident in stating that there will never be an 'organization' that will agree to a broader definition of craft beer like I stated in my equation above.

    So, maybe we can all as individuals define what is craft brewing and consequently create varying volume (percentage) values accordingly?:thinking_face:

    Cheers!
     
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  19. Haybeerman

    Haybeerman Pooh-Bah (2,614) May 21, 2008 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    Like 50% bigger. The 2016 reports shows BA craft at a little over an 11 share with IRA showing craft at 17.2...those are the numbers usually quoted. The report linked below also compares multi outlet plus convenience and craft a 4 point lower share (not many crafts can find room in the limited shelf space and c-stores aren't a typical destination for craft beer consumers).

    https://www.brewersassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/BA-MY-2016_Final.pdf
     
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  20. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The Brewers Association does it - New Brewer, using BMI estimates (since most of those "captured" breweries are wholly-owned, their barrelage is not public), put the total at 7,721,906 bbl. of the former-craft & "crafty" (Blue Moon, Shock Top, etc) brands coming from NAB, Heineken, AB, MC, CBA and UB.
     
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