Blending in the US

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by MasterSki, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. brewbetter

    brewbetter Initiate (0) Jun 2, 2012 Nauru

    It makes no mention of being bottled in NY and says that is was imported. I suppose it could be saying that the contents were imported, but that seems misleading and I don't think that should be allowed.
     
  2. Errto

    Errto Zealot (737) Oct 20, 2009 Connecticut

    Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but doesn't Three Philosophers contain a small portion of imported Lambic which is blended with the base beer?
     
  3. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ah yes - it has 2% Liefman's Kriek in it.
     
  4. Errto

    Errto Zealot (737) Oct 20, 2009 Connecticut

    Uh...that's some sort of inside joke, right? :slight_smile:
     
  5. Errto

    Errto Zealot (737) Oct 20, 2009 Connecticut

    Separately, is blending beer and spirits actually forbidden, or just financially stupid because of the tax issues?
     
  6. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I doubt there are legal issues. Probably just costly/risky to transport full barrels. A couple years ago CBC collaborated with Russian River and blended Cerise Cassée with Consectration in a 5 gallon oak barrel. It was okay.
     
  7. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You know - I'm not entirely sure. I have a sneaking suspicion breweries do it indirectly anyway by pouring spirits into old barrels before filling them (like Midnight Sun's 'pirated' rum barrels that were actually old bourbon barrel into which they poured Captain Morgan). You're probably right that it's a tax issue - otherwise you'd have places cutting 49% spirit with 51% high-gravity/ice-distilled beer to get a lower tax rate.

    Now that I know it's possible, what would the process be? Does Ommegang buy the Liefman's Kriek directly as an 'ingredient' or do kegs (or boxes?) of the Kriek have to go through the three-tier system before it is purchased by Ommegang?
     
  8. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought they use Boon kriek. Or is that in the New Belgium kriek?
     
  9. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That's New Belgium that used Boon Kriek.
     
  10. infi

    infi Savant (1,072) Apr 4, 2009 New York
    Trader

    Doesn't Cantillon also source some of their wort to Tilquin?
     
  11. Errto

    Errto Zealot (737) Oct 20, 2009 Connecticut

    That's one of those little things I always wondered but never gave much thought to. It just struck me in reading the thread that both you and the other posters all mentioned pretty obscure beers, and I thought, hang on a sec, there's a beer most of us see in the store/bar every time we're in there that has this very property. But how they actually accomplish it is a good question.
     
  12. weatherdog

    weatherdog Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    Since they (Ommegang and Liefmans) are all owned by the same parent company do they even need to state any purchases or pay taxes since technically they are shipping beer from one brewery to another brewery all owned by the same company and it could be considered an internal transaction?
     
  13. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Probably not. I guess a better example would be the New Belgium/Boon blend where they are clearly separate business entities.
     
  14. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Yes.
     
  15. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You and "Rutager" are the ones speculating that it is bottled in New York - which I only noted would not prevent it from being labeled "Product of Belgium" according to TTB labeling rules for imported beer. The label I find for Lambickx says:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Any beer that was marketed as being flavored with spirits would be considered a "Flavored Malt Beverage" and would have to meet the rules in TTB TD-21 which:

    "...permits the addition of flavors and other nonbeverage materials containing alcohol to beers and malt beverages. Malt beverages that contain not more than 6% alcohol by volume may derive no more than 49% of their alcohol content from flavors and other nonbeverage materials. If a malt beverage contains more than 6% alcohol by volume, not more than 1.5% of the volume of the finished product may consist of alcohol derived from flavors and other nonbeverage ingredients containing alcohol....

    And that:

    "...a product that does not comply with the requirements of TTB TD-21 may not be produced at a brewery, bottled at a brewery, removed from a brewery with or without payment of tax, removed from customs custody for consumption, or (in the case of products not destined for exportation), transferred to a second customs bonded warehouse. Such a product may be reformulated for production at a distilled spirits plant."

    So it appears a beer/spirits blend would be classified and taxed at the higher Distilled Spirits Excise Tax rate of "$13.50 less any credit for wine and flavor content per proof gallon".
     
  17. Rutager

    Rutager Initiate (0) Oct 18, 2010 Canada (BC)

    No, I'm not sure. I thought that I read this some time ago, but couldn't find any thread or article to verify. Was hoping someone else would chime in, I'd like to know the facts myself.
     
  18. dauss

    dauss Pooh-Bah (1,954) Aug 9, 2003 Colorado
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

  19. waltersrj

    waltersrj Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2010 Washington

    All of the beers were made at Deschutes and blended in their barrel house.
     
  20. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Pooh-Bah (2,332) Mar 17, 2009 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've blended Cuvee de Largadeer several times...although the costs to do so are quite astronomical!
     
    MasterSki likes this.
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