Sixpoint Beer Purchasing App

I actually love his view and 100% agree re: the marketing aspect. This was largely what my issue with all of this stemmed from (the marketing tactics and what I consider to be largely deceptive marketing through the use of weird technicalities to be “the first to do X”), but I will voice that to Shane in person .

I don’t mind marketing, but when it feels like a car commercial (every car wins every award for being the best and first to do everything, under very narrowly defined circumstances), I get quite turned off.

 

I f

I found their take on Sixpoint's marketing aspect very interesting too. Both what was said and left unsaid. How suddenly after 14 years of not having a local presence they see what the other Brooklyn breweries are doing and are following in a way. Kind of what I said earlier that wasn't answered. Also kind of a sly take down of both breweries that have to create hype as well as the fad of the hazy NEIPA market. Basically there are other beers that could or should be made but the need for haze now drives everything.

 

I don’t think it’s fair to say theyve had no New York presence in the past 14 years. They’ve been brewing in Red Hook for years. I’ve had their beers at festivals around the city and at bars as well.

 

As I said in my earlier post I was here in BK during their beginning and didn't really know about them. There was no public taproom that I knew of - unless I missed something. I know they were exclusively featured at Governors Island parties when the island opened to visitors - but then I had Apollo and some other bad experiences and found out that the beer was actually brewed in PA. So I was kind of turned off as other local breweries were opening up taprooms and the local craft movement took off. I think they should have made a move like this much earlier.

 

Ko

Its nice to see such a wide variety of reactions from people regarding the app, from consumers to wholesalers to beer lovers to fellow colleagues. With such a diversity of opinions on the matter, it shows that many are wondering but perhaps few see the big picture or implications. We've been in this position before - we believe we will be vindicated over time, but its up to us to prove that to you in order to see the value.

Not everyone has the ability to come and retrieve their beer; which is exactly the frustration of the caller who said he intrigued by the creativity and formulations but he doesn't have the capability to come get the beer himself. He wants all of the convenience of a traditionally distributed beer, but all of the features, freshness, and intimacy of the small-batch offerings. Herein lies the paradox - is it possible to have both? Time will tell.

There is a lot of debate right now within the industry as to whether or not certain styles truly can be scaled up, or whether or not there are physical constraints as to what scale you can achieve without fundamentally altering the beer.

I think its important to distinguish between "can't be brewed" and "aren't being brewed" - just because someone hasn't done it does not mean someone can't do it. To merge those two together and not challenge the assumptions would be defying the basic fundamentals of science. That's not Mad Science - that's just Bad Science!

In just about anything that's crafted/manufactured, its never going to be easy to just pull a few levers and scale up the production. To do so, it often requires some serious technical skill and engineering prowess, and a little bit of mad science - assuming its possible in the first place.

Hey wait, weren't you supposed to hold off until further comment until then? Didn't you just contradict your prior post and then contradict yourself again within the most recent post?

For real though, if it were not a noteworthy development, than no one would be writing or discussing it. Very few understand the actual long-term development of it (including colleagues who have gotten the facts right, but missed the point entirely). In the end, its up to us (Sixpoint) to prove to you that it actually will provide some value to you in the long run, so our energy and focus will be on proving that. As the English would say, "the proof is in the pudding."

Continually operating a craft brewery in the five boroughs for 14 years by very definition is having a local presence. With your logic, anyone who started brewing in Brooklyn after us would be following us - not the other way around.

If we really wanted to follow others, we would have launched 22 oz. bottles while everyone else was favoring that format at the time (instead we opted to do 4-packs of 16 oz cans in May 2011 when it was virtually unknown). Six years later, hundreds followed our lead. And the 22 oz. format is largely dead.

If we really wanted to follow others, we would have opened up a cookie-cutter taproom from the taproom starter kit and we could have done this years ago and probably made a lot of money and given a lot of high-fives. Instead we are taking the much, much harder path here and taking risk and choosing to do something entirely different. We launched the first phase of it last week (the native app). And yes, the native app is different than selling beer through a website or third party service, and the distinction is critical for aforementioned reasons, both by us and from customers. The next several phases of the app will be rolled out in sequence, and we will be continuing that spirit of innovation for the can releases and for the tap room.

"Basically there are other beers that could or should be made but the need for haze now drives everything."

If you were at the brewery last Saturday, you would have noticed we had the following beers for sampling/sale:

1) Classic Saison, 6.9% ABV

2) Kölsch, 4.9% ABV

3) Port Barrel-Aged Belgian Dubbel, 9.8% ABV

4) Smoothie, 7.2% ABV

5) Lil' Raspy Berliner Weiss (made with raspberry puree) 4.5% ABV

6) Toppen-ish farm to Pint IPA, 6.8% ABV


Anyone who looks at our current product lineup as well as our innovation pipeline can clearly see we are much more dynamic brewery than being a one-trick pony that has gone all-in on one style of beer. If you think there are other beers that could or should be made, maybe you should come down to the brewery and have a conversation with us about it. But to say one style is driving everything we are doing is completely wrong - you must have us confused with someone else.

 

Well, you need to have this conversation with your buddy Augie since he was pretty clear about "can't". You can listen to him discuss this at around the 36:00 mark of the Steal This Beer Episode #129 podcast. He stated that if you used large tanks "The beer changes what it is".

Cheers!

@makalarch

 

Well THAT sounds like the product of rigorous testing...

 

@Sixpoint your ability to Post So Hard and own a brewery is impressive. It makes me question how hard it is to do the latter .

 

Hey Jack,

I am not saying it can be done - I am saying its inconclusive to say it "can't" be done simply because 1) no one has done it yet, or 2) someone tried to do it by simply by scaling up a recipe without taking into account other mitigating factors and it failed. There would need to be more sophisticated and rigorous testing to prove/disprove any claim. The verdict is still out!

As our company has grown from a tiny startup business, I'm glad we never got so large or disconnected that my entire day is consumed by moving from one boring meeting to the next and never interacting with any customers. Sometimes I may just have 15 minutes here or there in the early morning or late hours of the night, but its still a pleasure to answer questions directly and provide the same type of care offered like when we first launched. And since this app is a whole new concept for us, it does feel very much like a startup all over again. cheers

 

What is the current scale of Trillium and the potential of the Charlton Tree House location? Also how about the Stone Fruitallica? Isn't Sip of Sunshine, while not as crazy hazy as others, brewed at Two Roads?

@JackHorzempa

 

Or for that matter the size of Alchemist and HE? Cheers!

 

Agree with @makalarch. It is being done (NE IPA's on a "larger" scale that is) and anyone who says it "can't" be done isn't paying attention. Anyone who has been to Trillium Canton or the new Treehouse facility in Charlton has seen it 1st hand. You can no longer call what they are doing "small batch" as they are selling a ton of beer on a daily basis and brewing those beers with pretty good quality and consistency.

 

I think it comes down to what you consider large scale. Tree House has what, a 50BBL brew house? Yes, that is large but in comparison Founders brews on a 300BBL system.

 

True I wouldn't compare Treehouse and Trillium to the bigger well established craft breweries in terms of output but they are changing the "small batch" stigma that has always been associated with NE IPA's. And I'd say Lagunitas Born Yesterday would also disprove the myth that it can't be done.

 

Born yesterday is the exact beer I was thinking of too! It's in its on league as per nationally distributed hoppy beer and comparable to any "pick up at brewery" beer.

 

While I could see it taking some finesse I always thought the stigma of producing larger quantities is the ability to get them distributed as quickly and as fresh as possible.

 

Anyways I wish @Sixpoint luck on these endeavors and hope that some of these smaller batches can get scaled up and sent down here to Philly. It's also my hope that if they do strive to start producing some NE ipas they dial in a recipe with some of the established players in the field as inspiration and not put out another allllmoooost but not quite version of the style. (Not saying they have mainly commenting on some of the lesser examples out there now.)

 

My head hurts trying to read this thread. It is like watching a movie I have to think about after finishing a long day of work. I would rather just watch The Goonies for millionth time. Moving on...

 

Shane, I brew 5 gallon batches so I have zero expertise here.

Augie Carton claims that the so called 'NE' IPA "can't" be brewed large scale.

You state that the 'jury is still out'.

I will patiently wait to learn more both from you and Augie on this topic.

Cheers!

P.S. I do know that for Wyeast 2565 that a fermentation temperature of 60-62 degrees is the 'sweet spot' so I have that going for me!

 

That was one of the best beers I had last year. They were also able to get it to NY in 7 days.