Recipe critique - Schoolnight Porter

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Dave_S, Dec 5, 2017.

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  1. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Hi folks! Been brewing for a couple of years, but this is my first recipe posted on here for critique...

    The goal is to get a relatively rich and satisfying porter but at a schoolnight-friendly strength. I'm hoping to get upfront blackcurrant and liquorish flavours from Bramling Cross hops and crystal rye malt respectively, with a fairly smooth chocolatey background. I'm after a bit of heft and sweetness but not to properly sticky milk-stout levels.

    My first stab at a recipe is as follows. I've converted from my weird no-sparge BIAB short brewlength to a standard 5 gallons and from metric to imperial units, so if anything looks totally out of whack then I've probably divided rather than multiplying at some point.

    Grain:
    # 10.5 Mild Malt (7 EBC) (if you don't know mild malt, think "British Vienna")
    # 0.6 Chocolate Malt (950 EBC)
    # 0.6 Crystal Rye (150 EBC)
    # 0.3 Black Patent malt (1300 EBC)

    Hops:
    Bramling Cross, 1oz at 5 mins, 1oz at flameout (or maybe 80 degree steep for 30 mins)
    Magnum at 60 mins to hit 25 IBU total

    Mash at 155F
    Ferment with US-05
    Target OG 1.050 due to my crap no-sparge BIAB efficiency.
    Target FG somewhere around 1.012?

    I think my biggest worry here is about getting the proportions right of crystal rye and hop flavor versus roast malt background. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

  3. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    I've heard of that as a technique and would be interested to try it at some point, but I think I'd probably want to do it for a recipe that I'd done before so I could get some idea of what difference it made.
     
  4. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Not a big fan of Black patent malt in a porter. Mild Malt = British Vienna? Very interesting! Good luck!
     
  5. Elvis_on_Bass

    Elvis_on_Bass Crusader (453) Jul 25, 2016 New York

    Are you sold on the yeast? I've had good results with Wyeast 1968 in porters, leaves a hint of fruity character that complements the porter well. It is lower in attenuation than safale 05 though, so you would want to consider dropping the mash temperature slightly if you are targeting a specific FG. I think it would be excellent with a mild ale base malt.

    I think your chocolate to black malt looks reasonable, I really only use black to color in porters it's easy to get more roast than you want. For the rye crystal, I'd bump that up a touch or it might get lost, I think that it would end up pretty subtle at your current ratios. Unless that's what you want.

    Also, I find that cold stepping tends to smooth out the flavor from the roasted grains. I've been happy with it when I've used it. Just for reference.
     
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  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Firstly let me state that I think the recipe as is will make a fine Porter.

    Permit me to discuss a few topics:

    Hop Schedule

    Adding two ounces of hops towards the end (5 min. of boil and flameout) is pretty ‘heavy’ for the Porter style but I recognize that you are looking for contributions from Bramling Cross hops. If it were me I would be a bit more conservative and use 0.5 ounces for these two hop additions but you should follow your personal instincts here.

    Specialty Malts

    Black Patent Malt has a reputation for contributing acrid/ash-like flavors to beer but IMO this is a function of a number of variables: how much is used, how it is used (e.g., cold vs. hot), specific malting company,… I use 0.25 lbs. of Black Patent Malt in brewing my Oatmeal Stouts and this is the limit to how much I would use for this style of beer. My suggestion would be to ‘bump up’ the Chocolate Malt (I prefer Simpsons Chocolate Malt but that is just me) and ‘tone down’ the Black Patent Malt. Maybe something like 0.2 lbs. Black Patent Malt and 0.75 lbs. Chocolate Malt. I recognize this is a subtle difference from the original recipe. Maybe ‘tone down’ the Black Patent Malt down to 2 ounces (0.125 lbs.)?

    Yeast

    US-05 is a neutral yeast and maybe that is your goal for this beer? My preferred yeast for brewing my Porters is Danstar Windsor fermented warm (e.g., 70 degrees F). This yeast produces pleasant esters (fruity) flavors which for my palate very nicely complements the dark malt flavors. Maybe you just want the Bramling Cross hop flavors to ‘shine’ in this beer, in which case just stick with the US-05. If you decide to use Danstar Windsor just be aware this yeast strain is a low attenuator so your FG values would be higher in comparison to US-05 (which is a good thing IMO since I enjoy my Porters to be ‘chewy’).

    Best of luck in brewing your Schoolnight Porter.

    Cheers!
     
  7. frozyn

    frozyn Maven (1,435) May 16, 2015 New York
    Trader

    If you have access to it, Wyeast 1084 might go really well with the Bramling Cross. I've received some feedback that my porter with 1084 has nice fruity esters that complement the roasted notes well. I would also echo @JackHorzempa's suggestion that you drop the black patent to .15 or .2 pounds and up the chocolate to get the dark color. If you're looking for dark, you don't need the BP -- my porter is 40 SRM according to Beersmith without any BP in it -- roasted barley works just as well to darken things and has plenty of roasted flavor to it. Use a similarly small amount, around .2-.25 pounds.

    Separately, what's your efficiency? With no-sparge BIAB, I hit 74% routinely without much difficulty, just some bag squeezing with silicone gloves on.
     
  8. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Some great advice here, thanks. Using something like Windsor seems like a natural idea for the recipe and I'll probably try it in a future iteration of the recipe if I rebrew it, but I was deliberately going for a neutral yeast for the first attempt to make it easier to unpick what contributions the hops and the crystal rye are making. And yeah, the hops are deliberately OTT for the style!

    Thinking about malts, I'll probably bump up the crystal rye to about #0.9 and the drop the mild malt to keep the total weight the same. I'm tempted to sub out the black patent entirely for more chocolate - again, I'd maybe bring it back in a future iteration, but for a first stab it might be good to err on the side of subtlety with the dark malts and let the rye and hops take center stage.

    Re efficiency - erm, it varies. I suspect that hard water and relatively basic water treatment is the culprit - looking back through my records I also normally seem to be in the vicinity of 74% for darker brews, too, but, with a few weird exceptions, more like 65-70 for paler things. But that's another thread...

    Thanks!
     
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  9. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Porter = chocolate rye...if you want some roasted rye characteristics
     
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  10. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Although this grainbill will get you a porter, IMO porters are all about malt complexity, so I tend to add a neutral highly kilned malt for color and then add some different crystal malts for additional complexity. I prefer Carafa malt for color and then a medium and dark crystal for additional malt complexity. I also like the Chocolate malt that you have. Depending upon the taste that you're going for, Special B malt and/or dark candi syrup might be of interest.

    Again, I like to highlight the malt in my porters, so if you're of the same mind I might reconsider the late kettle and "whirlpool" additions.

    Not that Chico is a "bad" choice, but, as others have said, there are more characterful options. S04 might be something worth considering.
     
    scottakelly likes this.
  11. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Interesting. On hops and yeast, I basically agree in principle but see above for why I'm not doing that.

    On grain bills - the Carafa and crystal approach sounds interesting and tasty, but it's relatively unorthodox, right? I mean historic British porters seem to be all about black, brown and chocolate malts and that seems to be largely carried on in the post '78 revival and in all the reputable sources of homebrew recipes that I've seen. Also, it's a British style, so I'd tend to use British malts by default...
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    But ironically you are selecting an American yeast strain. I sorta recognize why but I am just saying...

    Cheers!
     
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  13. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    +++++ to Windsor.
     
  14. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Fair - but again, I'm aware that that's an unorthodox thing that I'm doing for a reason rather than the standard choice that most people would make by default.

    (Also, I'd consider using Nottingham but I don't particularly want the approximately 99.999% attenuation.)

    Anyway, I've ordered the bits now so bets are off. Maybe next time I brew a dark beer I'll go for a straight down the middle trad British porter with loads of brown malt and Windsor yeast...
     
  15. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I bet yer beer tastes great!
     
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  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    As long as you keep in mind that the brown malt of today is nothing like the historically accurate brown malt that porters used to be brewed with, you'll be just fine.
     
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  17. Elvis_on_Bass

    Elvis_on_Bass Crusader (453) Jul 25, 2016 New York

    Be sure to report back with your observations and let us know how it turns out!
     
  18. Dave_S

    Dave_S Crusader (429) May 18, 2017 England

    Just remembered that I never actually did report on this. So...

    It's... fine? A very pleasant, drinkable, dark beer that I'm happy to have in the cupboard, but it's actually quite a lot less unconventional than I was expecting! If the crystal rye and late hops are doing anything then it's at the level of background complexity rather than being the main feature. If I was brewing it again I'd probably bring in a little bit of black patent (which I subbed out entirely in the end) for a bit of crunch, and use Windsor rather than US-05 to get a bit more fruit and sweetness.

    Thanks again for all the suggestions, whether I acted on them or not!
     
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  19. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I think I would like this, but I might prefer a more standard English crystal to a Cara rye type.
     
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