Do I have to sanitize my barrel?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Lorianneb, Dec 7, 2017.

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  1. Lorianneb

    Lorianneb Pundit (919) Apr 27, 2012 New Jersey

    I know, sanitizing is paramount. But I just got a used barrel that had whiskey, then maple syrup. They say it's freshly dumped and I believe it. Took the bung out and it smells delicious. Looks wet and shiny with some syrup remnants still there. Can I get away with putting my 10% stout right in there without sanitizing and losing all the goodness?
     
  2. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes.
    You will be fine.
    You have two things working for you already.
    Big beer. Wet shiny barrel.
    If you are in the least worried, add an angels share to soak with.
    My guess is a spray bottle of some sort is what you'd want to mist it in with.
     
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  3. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Short answer: Yes

    Long answer: Yes
     
  4. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    My homebrew club never did anything with their. #1 and #3 went fine. #2 not so much... Needless to say we have a barrel for funky beers for those that actually like those kinds of things.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

  6. Lorianneb

    Lorianneb Pundit (919) Apr 27, 2012 New Jersey

    Very interesting read
     
  7. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Jeff (@hopfenunmaltz) recently posted about commercial brewing and barrel aging:

    “Talking with industry folks they said they dump 20% to 40% of the barrels for various off flavors when tasting the barrels.”

    The rest of that post is also rather telling, where he went on to say:

    See the post by @honkey above, where he states that long aging in the barrels results in 100% contamination. He is a pro brewer.

    IMO, there's a LOT of beer being left in barrels for FAR too long.
     
  8. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    What is “far too long” for a clean beer?
     
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    The whiskey left the barrel fairly sanitized. The syrup is a question, as it might encourage growth of the microorganisms in the wood. Get some beer in there fast, see what happens.

    I have no idea of what Founders does for sanitation of the maple syrup barrels used for CBS, but that is one tasty beverage.
     
  10. Lorianneb

    Lorianneb Pundit (919) Apr 27, 2012 New Jersey

    Beer was brewed 5 days ago. Will add some coffee in a day or 2. In the barrel in a week
     
  11. Lorianneb

    Lorianneb Pundit (919) Apr 27, 2012 New Jersey

    Going to scrub and sanitize the bung only
     
  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Any longer than it takes to get the right level of wood and/or spirit character is "far too long". Usually that's no longer than a month or two.

    There's a reason why you really can't age most of these newer barrel aged clean beers very long. The amount of oxygen exposure before packaging ends up turning them into sherry or soy sauce rather quickly.
     
  13. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Cleaning and sanitizing is more important for barrels that have been sitting empty for a while, or had beer or wine in them that left a ton of junk on the bottom. If your barrel is fresh and smells good, you are probably fine!
    W
    As far as what “the pros” say, it’s all over the place. People don’t agree on barrel practices, and somehow, even using very different methods, many manage to make great beer.
    Some use sulfur sticks, some use holding solutions. Personally, I feel that if you need to clean a barrel, steam is decently effective and much less agrssive than chem.

    For barrels that have been sitting dry for a while, I like to fill with hot liquor and hold overnight to saturate/check for leaks, dump, add a little of the spirit it previously held (bourbon, rye, etc.), then fill with beer.
    That’s for spirit barrel aging. Neutral oak for sour beer and wine requires different processes.
     
  14. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    I would advise against that. Breweries that add coffee, fruit, or other flavoring to barrel aged stouts, usually add in the brite tank after the aging and right before packaging. Coffee sitting for that long will become bitter, stale, and gross and will ruin your beer and possibly your barrel.
     
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  15. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Agreed.

    Steam or hot water is great for simple cleaning, but if you're looking at creating a holding solution, ascorbic acid and water is great, as it's very effective and you don't have to worry about the downsides to sulfur or other chemicals.

    Definitely need to swell barrels that haven't held liquid for any period of time beyond the very short term.

    Barrel maintenance is very similar, but there are other concerns when aging for multiple years in wooden vessels.
     
  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Very important bit, this. Add these things at the last possible moment for the greatest flavor and aroma contribution. Basically, think of them just like dry-hopping. You wouldn't dry hop and THEN age a beer, would you?
     
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  17. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Kiiinda a general statement. Size of barrel, number of uses, etc. plays a lot into aging time. Also, personal preference. One man’s over-oaked is another man’s balanced.
    Definitely homebrew-sized barrels don’t usually require to long.

    Although barrels will inevitably allow more O2 than a positive pressure neutral vessel, the increase isn’t as dramatic as it may seem. Most of the O2 pickup is from poor barrel filling and emptying practices.
    When the barrels are sufficiently purged, carefully transported, and properly emptied I.e. using a bulldog vs. gravity, DO levels can rival ‘normal’ beers. I have seen >1 year barrel aged beer with sub-50 TPO. It’s doable! It just requires brewers to...ahem...”brew the hard way.”:grin:

    Also, beers aged 2+ years with relatively low O2 are possible, but even greater care must be applied to the aforementioned practices, and you will almost certainly need to top-off with low DO beer. Possibly N2-scrubbed.
     
  18. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Not to mention, any fruit added to the barrel will ferment out. And depending on your coffee method, unless you are pasteurizing, you will likely add lactobacillus with the coffee. Something to keep in mind.
     
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  19. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Yeah, just like the ClO2 vs. PAA debate, there seems to be an inverse relationship between the effectiveness of barrel sanitizers and and their harshness. As far as gentleness, I believe it’s: Steam>hot liquor>citric>K2S2O5>sulfur.

    My point about sour beer uses was that when you aren’t concerned with preserving any flavor from the previous liquid, you have harsher options at your disposal, while aging in non-neutral spirit barrels, every time you add liquid and dump it, you pull flavor from the barrel. That’s not even bringing up sulfur.
     
  20. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    My issue with this is that if you're using the barrel for a flavor contribution and you aren't getting flavor from it quickly, you need to get a fresher barrel.
     
    JohnnyChicago likes this.
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