Sugar Addition to Purge O2

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Lukass, Jan 18, 2018.

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  1. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    So I had to do some re-shuffling of beer in my fermenters/corny kegs recently to free up space. During this shuffle, one beer had to go into a tertiary fermenter. I'm using a corny keg as the tertiary, which will eventually just be hooked up the gas when a tap line is available. Since it will probably be sitting in the corny for another 1-2 months, my concern is the small amount of headspace in the corny keg, and O2 exposure. I know.... I should've just purged the keg with CO2 before racking, but it's already been done. My question is, can I add sugar (5-6 oz) to get some airlock activity going again to help purge the headspace of O2? I''m going to try it either way, just want to see if anyone's done this before with success. Thanks!
     
    #1 Lukass, Jan 18, 2018
  2. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Inject some CO2 and pull the PRV. Same thing. Do that a few times and then leave a few psi of CO2 to keep the lid sealed. Keep the beer cold to delay oxygen staling.

    Cheers.
     
    #2 billandsuz, Jan 18, 2018
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  3. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    @billandsuz it's not that simple a few purges do not do practically anything to purge.

    @Lukass Sure, I would do that, the problem is the down time you have had now with the o2 in the headspace.
     
    #3 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
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  4. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    The down time was just 2 days... but that's probably enough time for O2 to make it's way into the beer. My hope is, any O2 that made it in will get pushed out from the small fermentation that will eventually take place, but maybe it's not that simple. I don't know enough about it.
     
    #4 Lukass, Jan 18, 2018
  5. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Yea its already been absorbed. Full O2 solubility via headspace diffusion at room temp is about 3-4hrs.
     
    #5 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
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  6. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, no. I'm not sure why you disagree with a fairly basic principle. It is quite easy, and purging headspace with CO2 will reduce the presence of oxygen in the headspace.
    CO2 gas will displace air. Unless you have some data to show otherwise, purging head space is a reliable method.

    No, it will not displace saturated oxygen. That is not the question though.

    Cheers.
     
    #6 billandsuz, Jan 18, 2018
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  7. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    So this means that any O2 that's been absorbed into the beer already cannot be removed via CO2 ie. fermentation?

    FWIW it's a low IBU wheat beer. This style may not be as much of a concern with oxidation off-flavors than let's say an APA or IPA/DIPA. Honestly, I've never really had oxidation issues with my home brew, but this whole 'sitting in a corny keg for 2 months' got me thinking that maybe I should do something about it.
     
    #7 Lukass, Jan 18, 2018
  8. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Unlikely. Yeast consume oxygen during the lag phase. They are preparing to ferment. If you introduce fresh liquid yeast* you may have some success but generally, once oxygen has been dissolved into fermented beer the staling damage is done and it can't be reversed.
    CO2 production won't remove oxygen, and it wont reduce staling that has already occurred. It will strip some aroma compounds though, to a varying degree, and you probably want as much hop aroma as you can get.

    If you develop a method the reduce DO post fermentation, there are several breweries with a lot of money that want to talk to you!

    *Dry yeast is packaged after the oxygen uptake phase, which is why it tends to start fermenting much faster than liquid.
    RDWHAHB.

    Cheers.
     
    #8 billandsuz, Jan 18, 2018
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  9. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Co2 doesn't displace, it mixes. I am not arguing the fact purging doesn't remove o2. I am arguing that your quick blips do anything. Not even taking into account the impurity of bottle co2. 150ppb is the allowance.
     
    #9 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  10. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    The boat has been missed there is a solution and its been around for ages.
     
    #10 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
  11. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm seeing a reduction in oxygen when CO2 is injected into the headsapce.

    I appreciate the difference between displacing and mixing. But my post is correct without modification. Cheers.
     
    #11 billandsuz, Jan 18, 2018
  12. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    For sure, that ~75000ppm left in the keg will have no ill effects. :grin:
     
    #12 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
  13. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah


    Honestly, WTF are you talking about here? Impurity of bottle CO2? Feel free to go on. Cause I too want some of that pure CO2. 150 ppb? Really now.
    Cheers.
     
    #13 billandsuz, Jan 18, 2018
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  14. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Some of this stuff is going over my head now so I'm gonna let the 2 of you battle it out :stuck_out_tongue:
     
    #14 Lukass, Jan 18, 2018
  15. Coons

    Coons Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2016 Illinois

    so just so we're clear, 2-3 purges reduces O2 by about 95%?

    Yeah fuck that.
    Save your CO2 for a special occasion.
     
    #15 Coons, Jan 18, 2018
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  16. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota


    I will draw it all out tomorrow. In the mean time prepare yourself.. you will be rocked. :sunglasses:
     
    #16 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
  17. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota


    Sure, but even 100% is not enough.. More to come tomorrow!
     
    #17 TheBeerery, Jan 18, 2018
  18. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Cool.
    Looking forward to it.
    Please be sure to source your charts if you can. Thanks man.
    Cheers.
     
    #18 billandsuz, Jan 18, 2018
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  19. Coons

    Coons Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2016 Illinois

    that would explain why my aspen simulations wouldn't converge..
     
    #19 Coons, Jan 18, 2018
  20. TheBeerery

    TheBeerery Initiate (0) May 2, 2016 Minnesota

    Uhhhh well I tried to explain it, but apparently it was too much to handle and got deleted as spam...:grimacing::grimacing::flushed::confused:
     
    #20 TheBeerery, Jan 19, 2018
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