Cellarmaker to start bottling.

My experience with most of the breweries you have listed is limited or nil...mostly because there are just too many options in the Bay Area...however I have yet to meet a Revision NE IPA that I didn't like, if not love...so...idk I'm a little lost regarding that addition to the list? I would be just as happy to be offered a Revision beer as a Fieldwork, Cellarmaker, Moonraker, or Alvarado beer...I'm serious, they're good.

 

A couple posts late, but I do find it odd that the Cellarmaker can releases are very heavy on the Dobis brand, The Glow, Moonage, and Wicked Juicy. Especially since they do the releases so infrequently compared to other breweries. Wicked Juicy is amazing so no complaints there, similar to Fieldwork with Pulp and Alvarado with Mai Tai, it should always be in the rotation. But I'd like to see even more Hoppy variation in cans considering they have released so many good Pales and IPAs. As mentioned by others Turok Juice needs to be next!

Holy shit, I just checked my spreadsheet and I've had 121 unique Cellarmaker hops! And I only went 5 times in the last half of 2017, and never in 2015! My wife is right, I drink too much beer and am deciding right now I'm never drinking again!!!

So...Thuey I'll see you tomorrow at Cellarmaker lol

 

Agree about Revision. The only Haze I haven't liked from them was Tahoe Haze, and their West Coast stuff is great too. Add in the fact you can get their stuff at so many more places/so much easier than the other top notch breweries and I think in time they'll be looked at in the same light as the big boys.

I've been thinking about the many ways that Craft breweries go to market, and it's very interesting to me the choices made. Some are just content with single locations and minimal distribution of kegs with some packaged releases, like Sante, Alpha Acid, Cellarmaker, etc. Others obviously go into it with a full on distribution model like fort point, Knee Deep and now Revision, etc. Others have multiple tap rooms and some distribution like Track 7. Fieldwork has gone with the huge keg distribution and multiple tap rooms, with no packaged distribution whatsoever. Modern Times has the multiple Brewing locations with wide distribution of kegs and packaged....

Anyway, it's gotten me thinking how I'd handle a brewery that was popular (I will win the lottery one day, I'm convinced. All I need to do is actually buy the tickets...). It's a tough choice, do you want to be all about the Craft and not the money like Monkish (at least that's my view of them since they are brewery only)? Or do you just want to make good beer for the masses? I think personally I'd lean towards a Modern Times model, where it's kind of a hybrid of both.

 

Wicked Juicy is exactly like a NE Juice Bomb (by that I mean all the players, not just strictly NE) and that's a good thing, I love it too. They say Hella, we Say Wicked. Otherwise, same. So are many other CM beers. I could list brewers and IPAs if you prefer. I wouldn't even mention anything that I haven't already posted. You're hilarious.

Yes, it has been established you love the Glow (specifically) and probably Dobis (OK). I also like many of their PAs. But I keep in mind, I never said Cellarmaker lost their way, but you did bud. They make perhaps my favorite IPA YTD 2017.

Pure has killer IPAs. Be more specific. I doubt you've had much.

New Glory has some pretty good hazies, esp after adding Moonraker dude as lead brewer. Gummy Bears was awesome. Please be more specific, I doubt you've had much outside what they distro to City Beer.

Track 7 has some good NE IPAs and they ship now too, hit or miss. Some, downright top shelf. I doubt you've had much.

Revision is awesome on hazy, that's Reno Beer. More and more people here are gravitating to it and for good reason. I talk to dozens of people, say same thing. I doubt you've had much.

Mikkeller puts out a lot of yeasty jank. You were recently recommending Mikkeller here to someone visiting SF. That makes sense. I'm sure you've had plenty.

Noble makes some good hazies, you just haven't had much.

Sonoma Springs?! LOL. Now we know you pretty much just shop of the local San Francisco shelf. You might have said Temescal or Henhouse, they also have some good stuff.

FW taxes? MT Club for IPA? Let's talk about catching you up bud. You have a lot to learn.

 

Holy fuck you're a smug piece of work. Do you have friends?

 

LOL. Maybe you, Brent. Where do you live in California? Livermore? Small world of LATE! Never say never.

So long as I'm not the guy who alleged Cellarmaker is inadequate or 'lost their way' or put my head up to myriad other rad Bae area brewers. Both of those stellar dudes are a tour de force in every way. Wicked good DIPAs, like many others. Read it however you like Brent. #DrinkLocal #BurpHops

 

I think there's a few things that are important/ worth discussing, did the brewer call the beer hazy, unfiltered, NE-style, etc..., or did someone else make their impression on style, upon which you make your assessment?

You've got plenty of brewers on your list from which I've had both good and meh impressions for their hazy/unfiltered/NE-style/etc. styles, but those are for MY palate and preferences. Nearly all has at least one recipe I still find good for MY palate and preferences. Thus why I'm very hesitant to paint anyone with the 'all their XXX styles are poor', and fully acknowledge what I like is not what all others like. I've tried providing you similar feedback previously, but perhaps its fallen on deaf ears. What you (or I) find great/good/poor/bad in beer recipes is only one subjective assessment...and should ideally be reflected as such in these forums. Overgeneralizing that your/my assessment is THE assessment, and phrasing as such, is a prime recipe for conflict.

Last points. While I don't love all Revision's recipes, WC, hazy, hybrid, other, they do have many that are up and coming... whether you like them or not.

And why do you continually bold beer names in your posts? Just personally curious. And these are solely my $0.02

 

Ha, I just realized you sound exactly like a beer nerd version of Trump. "I doubt you've had much. Believe me, I've had many, many of these beers. All the beers! I talk to *dozens* of people. They all agree with me! Bud. Bud! You've got a lot to learn Bud, believe me. I doubt you've had much, BUD!"

"Bae area"? Please say that's a typo.

 

So I don't like a lot of what I perceive as amateur attempts at NE. You guys like it. Cool.

Anyway, I'm surprised not a lot of people commented about this:

CELLARMAKER'S CANNED BEER SUCKS

I said that Turok Juice was probably the best Cellarmaker beer last year. But I just remembered another beer I thought was phenomenal: DDH Permanent Daylight.

Here's the thing about DDH Permanent Daylight. It was canned alongside the Monkish collab. I had it on tap the day of release and was blown away. I had a can the following day and didn't care for it... flavors were muted, didn't have the same mouthfeel, didn't even look the same. I scratched my head and went back to Cellarmaker on Day 3. Had it on tap again. Fantastic! Cans 2 - 4 that I had the rest of the month, same as the 1st can.

I theorize that because they use an outside canner, their canning process isn't that good. Because why is the beer so wildly different in and outside of a can, even when drunk in the same timeframe? I'd love it if I could have a dialog with Tim or Connor about this topic, although I don't see them in the taproom when I usually go.

 

It's not wildly different, nobody else is saying that.

I see one or the other virtually every time I go there, especially on 'can' releases.

OK, for the sake of ending a silly conversation, their cans suck, Alvarado sucks, Cali hazy is bad, Monkish tap not canned is bad (so Monkish is one of the best hazy brewers in Cali); Fieldwork needs to quit charging tax; Modern Times spec can releases need to be more accessible and people here actually talk about Sonoma Springs.

Got it.

 

I guess there's more than one Justin here, glad I know the cooler one.

If you can't discern Terrence's lack of breadth in posts loaded with inaccuracies or rife w/ contradictions then well... keep making irrelevant, hyperbolic Trump references, it suits you. There's nothing amateur about many (dare I say most) of these brewers. Most of Cali hazy IPA in fact, is not bad, quite the contrary (and we haven't even got to superb Humble Sea and SARA). Despite this or that batch of any one brewer, they're widely received as net positive. Big Lots is fantastic, King Citra is fantastic and the list goes on, despite contradicting Glow (now certain batch tap only) guy.

But I've already cleaned up at least a few inaccurate misconceptions, so what do I know eh? BELIEVE ME! That's a few more than you though.

 

sorry i can't add anything of value. some of the comments are a riot though.

cthu.

 

Last thing I say to @IG_Hunter because I'm pretty sick of this. You have a distinct inability to read.

A lot of your supposed "arguments" in this conversation are against "points" we were not arguing. Literally verbatim:

(thuey) I love Cellarmaker because their style is more unfiltered fusion, but they also make plenty of pure WC, and the occasional juice bomb.
(IG_Hunter) Wicked Juicy is exactly like a NE Juice Bomb (by that I mean all the players, not just strictly NE)

(thuey) Revision (Yes, I know, it's NV, not CA)
(IG_Hunter) Revision is awesome on hazy, that's Reno Beer.

Most of the other arguments are:

(thuey) I don't like this beer.
(IG_Hunter) I like this beer.

How is that additive conversation? You seem to be deeply troubled that I don't have the same taste as you.

I never said my opinion is the end-all-be-all for BA. It obviously is for me. But if you're going to argue, at least contribute.

I would add that in most of my posts - even in this crapshow - I am soliciting conversation (Anyone notice this particular profile in Big Lots, that doesn't exist in CM's other beers? Anyone notice a difference in CM quality ever since they started canning? Anyone notice a difference in CM beers on tap vs. the can, same batch same timeframe?)

 

Thuey: I was working on this conversation during your last post lol!

Ok so to specifically look at what thuey said about the quality of Cellarmaker's canned beer: My schedule was switched last January to working the front side of the week so every packaged Cellarmaker beer that I have had in the last year are from the releases that lasted beyond the first day. Since they started canning in June they have released :

The Glow, Wicked Juicy, Dobis, Double Moonage, Keeping the Family Together, DDH Permanent Daylight, Mt. Nelson, Double Dobis, Wicked Juicy, Highway to the Danker Zone, Little Bitssssss, Quad Dobis, The Glow, Double Moonage, Big Lots, Galaxy Dobis, Enigma Dobis.

*I've had all of these on draft except for Little Bits and Galaxy Dobis and I bolded the ones I had in cans

So a few observations: There have been a lot of Dobis family releases since canning commenced. They have canned The Glow twice which blows my mind because there are so many Cellarmaker pale ales that deserve to be canned. IMHO the issue I have had so far with the cans has more to do with the choices of what to can than with the physical canning of the beer, as in I haven't had a can that I thought was a bad can. There are a lot of single hop beers in that list above...I don't know if there is any connection between single hop beers and Cellarmaker wanting to can them but it does stick out to me. From the last six months it looks like there is a pretty solid rotation in place that includes The Glow, WJ, a Dobis variant, a collab DIPA, Dub Moonage, a WC IPA/DIPA...rinse and repeat. I guess maybe what we are all looking for is more variation and canning more beers that don't fall within a very specific range. I've already said that I really want to see Tiny Dankster in cans. Hop Killah was my first Cellarmaker love. I've been drinking Hop Slangin' since batch 1. 300 Steps may still be my favorite Cellarmaker DIPA. Why no Coffee and Cigarettes cans (regular, not imperial)?

If the next six months are a repeat of the first six of canning then I will be disappointed because that list above really doesn't reflect the best of Cellarmaker. Of course we are (mostly) all very fortunate to be able to pop in to Cellarmaker on any given day and enjoy what they have on tap. It would be interesting to talk to Connor and/or Tim and see what their philosophy/business reason is for choosing what beers to can...however I'm not sure how open they would be about it. Anyway I hope this moves the conversation forward.

 

@thuey as jake pointed out, it's your use of absolute statements that's causing the conflict. You say things like "ASB doesn't know how to brew" which suggests you're an authority on brewing, but judging by the content of your posts, that's probably not the case. I have to go to class so I don't have time to hunt down quotes, but you often make confusing and contradictory statements that conflict with the authoritative tone you take in your posts. I mean, how are people supposed to take the statement "California haze sucks" when you haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your claim, just controversial opinion?

 

We know that Cellarmaker doesn't really have a flagship beers that they regularly brew, so would you prefer if the can release selection were:

- Different every time for 2018
- Mix of new and old?

I'm definitely a beer chaser, so I'm all for the first, but I understand for brand building, the second matters.

I definitely second your wish for Tiny Dankster and Coffee & Cigarettes to be canned. Hell I'd love if Are You Afraid of the Dank came back, as that's probably my favorite WC IPA from them. But even as I want new... I obviously have a soft spot for older releases that were bottle-only that I loved. (@jakecattleco I guess I bold because I feel like the names should be set apart, similar to book titles or whatever. I could have easily just italicized or underlined, but I chose bolding.)

 

Cute! Those are some rather innocuous cherry picked red herrings (as if Revision's location is even worth discussing at this point). I have better choices that reflect how contradictory you come off, despite there is so much to enjoy quoting with all the material you've provided, I'm only going to focus on a few that make me LOL more than all your other ridiculous comments.

BTW, before you bifurcate the word hazy again, do explain to Californians who sells filtered hazy IPAs? And why wouldn't you believe when someone says hazy, they mean unfiltered? I believe you're making a certain distinction that doesn't exist.

I'm a Monkish fan and almost all their 'hoppy beers' on tap have been canned. I've had 25 Monkish releases and counting. You?

Doesn't sound like it!

But at least you love them. Do you often shit on those you love? If you wanted to be 'contribute' why not bring it up to Cellarmaker? They don't check random threads on BA.

But you don't like any Monkish on tap and have RARELY (if ever) had a can though... interesting!

side note: Normal Unfiltered Fusion is not a thing. You just made that up.

To reiterate Pure, New Glory, Track 7 & Revision all put out credible hazy IPAs, says the masses. I'll leave Mikkeller alone even though you've recommended them in another thread (contradiction). At best I suspect you've had one of each. No mention of Humble Sea or Temescal, they also have consistent capability of great hazies. Not one of these brewers is amateur; they're actually quite professional in manufacturing their product, marketing it and sometimes distributing it. You've mentioned all the whales that you love/hate (can't tell which at this point).And the overall market feedback has been positive from all these folks, it's palpable all over the Bay. The sum total of that doesn't equal most California HAZY is bad (even by your own admission). You can't simply judge everyone by a beer you had in 2016 or a can off a City Beer Store shelf! Note: New Glory, as one example, won't even distro many of their smaller batches that are really stellar <-- contribution!

Everyone seems to LOVE Big Lots, except you. That's not me or anyone being an apologist. Your preconceived *defect* is already simmering down into a nothing burger. It's a byproduct of heavily hopped per bbl IPAs and has affected all the brewers you think it doesn't inc (but not limited to) Trillium, Monkish and Moonraker. I can even tell you specific releases and I've posted them.

Again, MT doesn't require any club, Fieldwork doesn't charge tax exclusive.<-- Contribution! Who knew, EVERYONE

If you can't even get the last two things right, why should anyone listen to your opines on West Coast hazy IPAs (to which you seem to lack breadth)?

Last but not least:

I've seen you sporadically post a can here or there weeks (if not month+) after a release. In recent memory of excellence to craft, did you post Wave Runner (top 5 dipa on year for me), Spooky Juice, or that 1st batch of Delorean Dust? Moving outside IPA, how about Tayberry? Some of the Yeast of Eden (SARA collab inc) that rate very well? Me thinks the primary reason you don't like Big Lots is because of a bias against ASB. The people who make your taplist beer love their beer, I've asked. ODD then, this duality.

Beer Chaser is a relative term I guess...

Anyway, keep on hating. Who am I to tell you what is a gigantic waste of time it is.

EXACTLY.

 

In case anyone is wondering... They still have it as Big Lots on their board. I guess the obfuscation is just to the public facing website.

 

Curious -- where did anyone mention "filtered hazy" IPAs?

"Unfiltered", to me, implies beers like Enjoy By Unfiltered, or maybe even Heady Topper. "Hazy" implies beers like Pulp or Foggy Window. Yes, before you start making up more non-existent disagreements, I understand that the beers that fall into the "hazy" category are also unfiltered.