Controversial Beer Opinions Thread

New England Ales (they aren't IPAs) are the wine coolers of the craft beer world.

 

No, I'm not interested in what the average Joe thinks. It's really hard for me to see a beer score here on BA, and think it's accurate. Hell, I don't trust my own assessments!

I'm interested in a top list per style (available everywhere), judged by brewers and Cicerones, who are supposed to know what the beer styles are supposed to taste like.

 

In that case I would suggest the Paste lists you mentioned, but as you also said, many of those beers aren't widely available.

Because the Paste lists are blind tasted by beer writers, brewers, and other folks in the industry.

 

More so than certain goses, fruited beers, and low ABV wild ales? There are plenty of NEIPAs that are straightforward and have adequate bitterness.

 

The notion that ales had no hops is really a red herring. At first they did not because hops had not been introduced.
I never said that a demarcation is not exact. The 49th Parallel is pretty well defined.It was an arbitrary decision to choose 49 and not 48 or 50
My point was that to divide brewing into Ales and Lagers by virtues of yeast action ignores what already existed in the understanding of beer and creates orphans and anomalies.

 

The latter. I could survive without it somehow.

 

I am patiently awaiting a New England style gruit.

 

THAT'S controversial, too.

 

Doood, when you find it, consider me ISO!

 

Yes, according to the history you have quoted around here more than once ales started out being called ales before hops came along. But then there was a period of some years where the terms ale and beer were used to differentiate betwen Ales (that had no hops) and beers (that used hops). This is when "beer" came into use. So that bit of history is no more a red herring than establishing a distinction between ale and lager based on history and folklore rather than yeast types.

And my point is that it is in the basic nature of taxonomies to create orphans. There is nothing new about that. The real question is which taxonomy is the most useful, one based in multiple folklores having different origins or one based on a consistent similarities and difference between organisms.

 

This thread is like wild fire. I'm one of those morons who won't post in a thread until I've read all the posts, so we're on page 20 and I'm finally gonna contribute. I essentially blame @EvenMoreJesus for preventing me from contributing. Oddly enough, many of mine will be language based even though I have zero talent for language. OK [cracks knuckles]:

- It's not Barleywine, it's barley wine (two words). Most styles shouldn't be capitalized either. You wouldn't say Toyota makes nice Sedans, and you wouldn't say Founders makes nice Stouts. Beyond some exceptions, German beer styles should be capitalized because they capitalize their nouns. If you have a bourbon barrel aged barley wine, it's not an "English style" barley wine. Just like if I put banana puree in a Pilsner, it's no longer a "Czech Pilsner." The moral of this story is that if you have a bourbon barrel aged English Barleywine, you've already lost me three times.

- Beer can't be "on cask." If it was on cask, it would be instantly "on floor" instead. Beer should be in cask. Casks work better that way.

- If people post about a beer and people say "sounds" delicious, it's usually because it's full of stuff that can easily conveys flavor to the reader. For example, "Sierra Nevada is coming out with a stout with coconut, cinnamon, coffee, and aged in rum barrels... sounds delicious!" People don't say "sounds delicious" if someone posts about a beer and just talks about yeast choice, fermentation temperature, and lagering time.

- Most beer forum jargon and pop culture expressions suck. Price point, barrel/sour program, shelf turd, shelfie, bro, brah, ___bro, drinking well now, world class, whalez, ___bomb, fail. Make it go away.

- Unless you are abbreviating SNPA or GI BCBS in a thread where the context is evident, leave your beer abbreviations out of the forums. Posting VHftBHR > BBOCFTW is a waste of typing, not the other way around.

- Similarly, don't contribute to a thread by pasting a link that I have to click on to discover what you're saying. Just type the damn name instead of doing this:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/677/38763/

- I have no issue buying beer in cans, but "cans shmans."

- Beer names and/or recipes based on puns are usually bad names and/or recipes.

- Local breweries can sometimes make beer better than a lot of stuff on the shelf that traveled a great distance, and at other times make beer that's not nearly as good as anything on a shelf that traveled a great distance. Based on how the world works, the former is less common than the latter.

- Julius is bitter.

- If you believe that IPAs should be broken down into categories like "west coast" and "New England," and you think that Sierra Nevada's Hazy Little Thing is not in the NEIPA category, then your definition of a NEIPA is so narrow that it's useless as a category.

- Brewers and drinkers that insist on calling brick red, mahogany brown, or chestnut brown beers "amber" have a poor idea of what amber looks like.

- Beer taxonomy that tries to find universal truths that are then applied across cultures is not as good as putting greater value on the taxonomy from the cultures themselves. Kolsch is not an ale. Belgian's don't make a ton of "Belgian pale ales." A Doppelbock can be light, dark, or wheat. Etc.

- If the US craft era had a goal to shake up the former American attitude towards beer itself, then we should embrace the same regarding the act of drinking it, who drinks it, and where we do it. One example of this would be to quit acting like all craft bars are places that belong to white men who want to get drunk after work and yell expletives in a setting without children or pets.

- If you believe that there is such a thing as the world's greatest brewer then you're not on this world.

- A "sour saison" is just a "saison" and a "hoppy saison" is just a "saison" but I appreciate the extra info that tells me what to expect.

- If you want to tick every style on BeerAdvocate, then that's great, but don't pretend that you've "had gruit" because of that one time that you drank a bourbon barrel aged imperial ale with rosemary from Maine that's classified here as a gruit.

- My love for beer has led to some amazing times, great meetings, friendships, travel, fun, better understanding of things, deeper appreciation for the act of tasting, a deepening of knowledge, needed sanity... but overall, I'm probably worse off for caring about it all.

 

I think you mean “ that can easily convey flavor” or, “ that easily conveys flavor”.

Completely agree

 

That was worth waiting for you to finish reading.

 

As long as you don't change him there and put the stinky dipper in the trash i am ok with it.

 

It was a long post so tough to catch all the stumbles.

 

Couldn’t resist.

 

That one can be "blamed" on Fritz Maytag (as a lot more can be, of course - just not everything Anchor currently claims ). BUT he had a good excuse - getting around the regulators.

Anchor also started a subtle bit of label nomenclature here. Look closely at a bottle of Old Foghorn. It says "barleywine." One word. When Maytag first sought label approval for his barley wine from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, it balked at the use of the word "wine" on something not made from grapes. Recalling a bit of legal arcana, Maytag knew that if the beer was sold only in California, the state would allow him to use a label that hadn't been approved by the feds. To increase his chances with Sacramento regulators, Maytag called his brew "barleywine," running the two words together to hide the offending term. The label read: "Old Foghorn Barleywine Style Ale."

---- 12/25/02 - Stett Holbrook, San Francisco Chonicle

 

What about J.W. Lee Harvest aged in whiskey barrels? Isn't that considered an English style barley wine aged in whiskey barrels? Oh wait you said bourbon ah, got it now.

 

Disagree here. Toyota should be capitalized, because it's a proper name. And, yes "Sedan" should be capitalized, because a Sedan is a different style of vehicle than a Coupe. Which brings us to; hell yes styles should be capitalized!

I'm kinda on the fence about Barleywine/Barley Wine, but, other than that, I'm mostly in agreement with the majority of your post.

 

Cigar City no longer stands out for me. They're the oskar blues of Florida.