Sixpoint March Release: Power Ballad and V Righteous

You know the number of people participating in said illegal block party is grossly exaggerated because it's such an obnoxious spectacle. It's a much more entertaining narrative when described as one big illegal block party than to say 40 people were being assholes and the next 160 quietly waited for their beer.

 

Shane - first off let me say that since I joined BA I’ve always viewed you as an invaluable member of the community. You’ve waded in on all sorts of nerdy debates and given a brewer’s perspective to a bunch of guys/girls who generally have no idea what they’re talking about. I’ve been enlightened by you many times, and until recently, whenever I’d see a post from you I’d know I was about to be schooled.

What I don’t get though, is that since the latest “pivot” (to use the kind of chat you seem to like), your tone on here has really become hard to take. Genuine question - you’re clearly an intelligent guy - is it intentional? You figure that being so divisive/chafing you’ll get more people talking/engaging about Sixpoint?

For me personally it would have been enough to know that Sixpoint was stepping into the haze arena, with the ex-Trillium brewer and a great idea for how to sell the beer. I would have been stoked. I was stoked. But all this tech bro speak, and (often hypocritical - I mean you use the label DDH, and you are selling hazy beer and tekus to beer geeks from a location in Brooklyn) all the jabs at other breweries, and all this disruption/data BS - it’s so offputting.

On the data topic though - further up you allude to your data pointing to Sixpoint as being “best of breed”. Can you expand on that and explain how that’s possible? The only data I can see that points to quality is beer ratings (and don’t get me wrong I’ve always taken those with a pinch [or handful depending on the style] of salt) - and from what I can see, Sixpoint seems to be lagging in relation to local comparables

 

Now that many of the issues I've had with Sixpoint's business practices has been mostly addressed - for years hiding the contract brewery on the cans along with not having a local space in Brooklyn (also Apollo was the last straw), I've been looking to give the Helles a shot. But I have been and still off put by the hyperbole, marketing buzzwords, challenging attitude and all the other crap that I read here. It does nothing to effect what the beer in the can tastes like but it leaves an unfavorable impression about the company's culture for me.

 

I am sure many people show up every week and just wait in line for the beer ( you?) , but much of the culture is the block party and OH caters to that as pointed out in that article that Shane refers to. It pushes many people out who don't want to be a part of that scene and don't want to compete with the people that do.

All it will take is a bad incident, maybe a drunk from the line mowing some one down while driving or the neighborhood starting to complain and that line life could be shut down.

 

And for anyone who has voiced their dissenting opinion here, although I respect it, show up at the brewery at a release, talk to Shane, talk to Eric, talk to Mikey and the rest of the staff. It's one thing to judge someone by words on a screen, a completely different thing to talk to someone face to face.

 

All of what you said about a bad incident is completely true, but my point is still that most people waiting in line don't partake in all aspects of the culture. Have you ever waited in line for a beer? If so, were you able to do it without getting drunk?

What's the point of having such a massive web presence if it's not to interact with customers on the internet? The brewery isn't exactly easy to get to either.

 

Given these ratings, looks like you should really give this one a try://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/10607/313586/

With haze not being your thing, should be a great opportunity to get something the masses don't even know exists. You would probably like the new versions of Righteous.

 

Is that the same one pulling a 3.7 on another, possibly more popular but certainly less entertaining beer site with over 100 ratings rather than 3?

 

Really can't see what's so complicated- standing in line sucks, not getting the beer you want sucks, Sixpoint makes beer that isn't exactly the same as everyone else and that's great because if you want everything else you already know where to get it.

Which suggests to me that the real question on here should be when the hell are we getting a taproom in which we can imbibe and explore these beers at the source any day of the week.

 

I hate to interrupt all the fun, but Anti-Resin tasting awesome right about now. Now back to back to your regular programming......

 

No other brewer is more accessible on both the internet via BA and in person through these events than us. If you're trying to claim otherwise, who is your counter example? We're happy to entertain any critique that we do not interact with our customers enough, but this would also be such a divergent piece of feedback as the vast majority of feedback on this issue is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

"Shane - first off let me say that since I joined BA I’ve always viewed you as an invaluable member of the community. You’ve waded in on all sorts of nerdy debates and given a brewer’s perspective to a bunch of guys/girls who generally have no idea what they’re talking about. I’ve been enlightened by you many times, and until recently, whenever I’d see a post from you I’d know I was about to be schooled."

Its a two-way street my friend. As many people have clearly figured out, I am a total clown at times - a lot of the time actually. But the reality is I learn just as much (probably more) from the BAs and fans/customers on here as they learn from me.

"What I don’t get though, is that since the latest “pivot” (to use the kind of chat you seem to like), your tone on here has really become hard to take. Genuine question - you’re clearly an intelligent guy - is it intentional? You figure that being so divisive/chafing you’ll get more people talking/engaging about Sixpoint?"

The intent is to actually challenge the way people think about the conventions and platitudes with beer. And there actually are a ton of them - we often do not see them because we are so immersed in both the contemporaneous fashions and the industry dogma that we are blinded. Challenging conventions is often a disruptive and messy process, and getting people to talk about it certainly helps. However, it is most certainly not meant to be chafing though, but apologies if it comes off that way. It is not the intent at all, but we really appreciate that feedback.

"you’re clearly an intelligent guy"

Don't overestimate me.

"On the data topic though - further up you allude to your data pointing to Sixpoint as being “best of breed”. Can you expand on that and explain how that’s possible? The only data I can see that points to quality is beer ratings (and don’t get me wrong I’ve always taken those with a pinch [or handful depending on the style] of salt)"

This is an excellent question, and we're glad you asked it. When we made the announcement that we created the Product Development team as led by Eric Bachli, we also needed a proper vetting system to truly assess the quality of these formulations, and one that is not filled by inherent biases (such as using public ratings as the sole arbiter). Let's just take one of those critical biases as an example (although there certainly are more) - the fact that a beer's score is shown to a reviewer before they even rate the beer. On Untappd its even more corrupted, for not only is the score shown to you before you assess the beer, you are also corrupted and influenced by the hundreds of friends/users providing feedback about the beer in your social feed, squawking in your ear the entire time, and having beers promoted via badges and other promotions. Clearly this is not an objective platform.

We have built and are building tools that help strip out some of these inherent biases, and it gives us a more objective assessment of the quality of the formulation. When the beer is vetted through this system, paired with an individual QA survey from the purchasing customer, and a comparative analysis of the other beers with both sensory and lab data, you have a much more dynamic assessment of the beer's "quality."

A lot of these features are actually going to be released to the public in upcoming iterations of the app, so you should be able to see for yourself within a matter of months. If you want to stop by the brewery or meet up in the meantime in person to go over how some of the backend of this works, it could be a really great time to do this over beers with @frozyn @jrnyc @EnthusedAboutBeer and some of the others who are aware of these items we have been building. We believe that like the pre-purchase feature of the app, it will benefit the entire community by connecting the beer customer with the best possible formulations in the most exciting and stress-free way. There's a TON of room for innovation on this front - the sky is really the limit.

cheers man!

 

Maybe my point wasn't clear, but for better or worse, I agree 100%.

My point is that "come on down to the brewery" is a silly response to someone raising issues online while you are so accessible online.

 

It entirely depends upon what the endgame is. Your feedback is sometimes constructive and insightful, so we have no problem engaging with you and enjoy having discussions about beer related items. We hope you enjoy it to.

The vast majority of folks are good like this - a few exceptions may not fall into this camp, but it really doesn't matter because this site has a well-groomed, self-policing community that can spot a troll from a mile away. So in that sense, its not a silly response for John to say "come on down to the brewery" if someone wants to eventually make the leap from timid internet troll to active, engaged beer advocate with integrity in modalities. We've seen various trolls the entire time we've been on this site, and the number one way to spot a troll is identify someone who is always eager to lend their disparaging remarks or unfounded negativity/criticism, but will always decline the opportunity to voice these opinions in person and have a quality, interpersonal dialogue about. Trolls are as old as the internet itself, so there is nothing new here.

The quality, depth, range, and dynamism of our beers (and at various scales) speak for themselves, and (more importantly) are corroborated by hundreds of thousands of customers globally. But in the end it all boils down to the individual's opinion anyways, but attempting to assert something we didn't say is not lending any more weight to your own personal opinion nor does it serve to validate it.

We respect your opinion, and that is why we think you'll realize you are seriously misguided on this specific point, and you'll come around.

We've put out 15 unique small batch beers since late September, and only one of them had the moniker DDH in the beer (a widely used moniker nowadays), and that was a derivative of our Resin Day release. All of these releases were in 6-packs of 12oz sleeks cans, and we are the only ones in this format. The first limited glassware item was the Bean Day snifter glass, when we did an exclusive series of canned barrel-aged porters. We followed that glassware with a proprietary resin day glass, which resembled German Eiswein stemware. That stemware has been holding the new rye-barrel-aged Righteous Ale (photo below), which was an entirely new formulation with the maple and vanilla component. The very first small batch release featured a raspberry berliner weisse that you could add a homemade jalapeño and raspberry reduction sauce to. Next month we are doing the Thunder from Down Under, where we pit NZ Hops. vs. Australian Hops in a hazy southern hemispheric battle of hops from down under. Some of the future releases will feature New Zealand hop strains that we are the only brewery in the entire country that has access to (photo below). Soon, we're going to have an entire release dedicated to stouts, and even an entire release dedicated to barrel-aged sours. And all of this has been done in a proprietary, unique, and ever-evolving sales format - the first of its kind, actually.

So you can clearly see, we are carving a new path here.







Upstate NY Rye Whiskey Maple Barrel-Aged Rye Ale with vanilla, aka V Righteous in the Resurrection Glass.



Travelled over 28 hours and 9,000 miles this March to procure extremely rare and new strains of New Zealand hops, and we will be the first brewery in the United States to feature these in upcoming small batch beers

 

@Sixpoint just responding to both your posts:

Data/best-in-breed - that all sounds great. I’m not sure how that’s going to work in practice when it’s a brewery-developed app vs some sort of independent third party / non-brewery platform. But looking forward to seeing that play out. In the meantime though - not sure you really answered my q. How - today - does your data point to Sixpoint being best in breed in a data-driven/objective way? And to borrow from Jeremy Iron’s character in Margin Call - speak as you might to a small child (so keep it short and simple and jargon-free).

Visiting brewery - I definitely plan on that in the near future - already told @jrnyc and @frozyn I’d join them for the next release if at all possible. Looking forward to that.

Sixpoint’s current/future line up and glassware - to clarify, I wasn’t saying you were exclusively selling DDH hazy ipas with tekus, but just that they’re in the mix. Meaning I don’t think you’re in a position to judge other breweries who’ve made a name for themselves in that sphere. And let’s be honest - all the existing or future beers you mentioned above - sours, stouts, barrel aged, haze, sexy/limited Southern Hemisphere hops. And the glasses - non-tekus are nice - but still, we’re talking about matching/limited glassware here that’s designed to appeal to beer nerds. All sounds damn cool. But also all very de rigueur for any brewery wanting to be at the top of their game these days (albeit potentially with a slight twist, but the same should be true for any brewery worth their salt). And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think the “we’re blazing a new trail and turning the industry on its head” type comments are unwarranted, and the manner in which they’re articulated, sometimes even offputting.

And just to be clear - I am not knocking anything you guys are doing (it all sounds awesome). Only how you’re presenting it.

 

I seem to get the announcement for last weekend's sale each time I restart my android phone.

 

These release threads have become quite the read

 

More Rye/Vanilla beers plead Shane! V Righteous is awesome and Rye 4 Beans one of my favorite beers ever.

 

My last Anti-Resin now gone, sad ! This one has reached maximum juiciness and perfectly dry, just the way I like it. Hope to see this one again.