Let’s guess actual IBUs in a theoretical ‘zero IBU’ DIPA!

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by JohnnyChicago, Apr 7, 2018.

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This beer’s IBUs will be between...

Poll closed Apr 12, 2018.
  1. 0-20

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. 20-40

    12 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. 40-60

    14 vote(s)
    46.7%
  4. 60-80

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  5. 80-100

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 100+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Ever wonder what the actual IBUs are in beers that have no hops added in the boil? I have! I’ve homebrewed many beers like this and was always surprised by their clear bitterness, despite their mathematically low IBUs.

    One of the perks of pro brewing is the ability to test out hypotheses. So recently we brewed up one of these beers and sent it to the lab. I should be getting the results back by Wednesday, but in the meantime, I thought I’d open a poll and see how close we get!

    Now, the clever among you may be thinking, “Silly, Johnnychicago! Adding hops to near-boiling wort is still going to impart bitterness. True! Which is why I made sure to get the wort a little cooler before it saw its first hops. I’ve always seen 175°(79°c) as a rough isomerization cutoff, so I wanted to get well below that. Here’s the details:

    Final volume: 11.7 bbl
    OG: 17.5° TG: 2.7°
    Whirlpool hops: 11 lbs. Amarillo (8.5%AA), 11 lbs. Centennial (8.2%AA)
    Dry Hop #1: 11 lbs. each of Amarillo and Centennial at 68° for 4 days.
    Dry Hop #2: 22 lbs Mosaic at 55° for 4 days.

    Whirlpool hops were added at 165° and between the whirlpool and cool-in, probably saw about 35 min. exposure time.

    Beer tastes like a nice, clean, west coast IPA. Definitely huge aromatics, but plenty of perceived bitterness too.

    For what it’s worth, I have always personally been of the opinion that IBUs are maybe the most worthless brewing parameter out there... :grin:

    Give it a guess, feel free to ask me questions, and discuss away!
     
    Lukass likes this.
  2. ECCS

    ECCS Pundit (755) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois

    What brewery do you work at in chicago?

    What was the AA% for the mosaic in the dryhop? Or is that irrelevant since the beer will be 60-70 degrees F?

    This may be irrelevant as well... does dryhopping affect the pH of the beer, and does pH of the final product effect perceived bitterness? (I’m not talking about mash pH, rather the pH of the finished and packaged beer.)
     
  3. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Have you seen the Scott Janish blog on his only dry hopped beer?
     
  4. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    My prediction: 62
     
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  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I predict that the hop combo will be delicious.
     
    JohnnyChicago likes this.
  6. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Honestly don’t remember the Mosaic AA, but I can look it up. It wasn’t anything out of the ordinary fwiw.

    If I remember correctly, dry hopping raises pH.

    Here’s the beer if you are interested: https://untappd.com/b/revolution-brewing-company-louie-louie/2587239

    Would have been my blind guess if someone had just handed me a sample without telling me the backstory.
     
  7. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    I have not! Got a link?
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Is the lab using a method that counts only isomerized alpha acids?
    I'm going with 30 IBUs.

    ETA: Define Cool-In...what was the temp after 35 minutes? (Might change my answer.)
     
    #8 VikeMan, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  9. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    5 minute WP, 20 minute rest, about 10-15 minutes to run the beer through the heat ex and drop to fermentation temp.

    Also, is there another contributor to IBU other than isomerized AA? Honestly don’t know...
     
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

  12. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Very interesting. We do have an HPLC, I’ll try to get the lab guys to fire it up. I will say that I don’t get any of that off-flavor he describes in the blog. The beer definitaly tastes like a good IPA should.
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    There are several different measurement methods, and they all give different results. I believe the most common one (in labs) is ASBC Beer-23A. And IIRC, it does pick up some compounds other than Iso-Humulones. I suspect that heavy dry hopping might skew the result, i.e. give a higher IBU result without any increase in true iso-humulones. OTOH, from a perceptual standpoint, iso-humulones aren't really the only things that cause bitterness. Eating a handful of hop pellets can demonstration that nicely.
     
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  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm going to stick with 30 IBUs if measuring only iso-alpha-acids. Otherwise, I dunno, I'll say 80. Too much math for a Sunday.
     
    frozyn and JohnnyChicago like this.
  15. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Devotee (337) Jun 4, 2017 Ohio

    Can anyone recommend a good online IBU calculator which is capable of playing in the post boil additions arena?
     
  16. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    A handful. :astonished:
     
  17. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    No I can't, but the latest Zymurgy has an article that addresses this subject. Also, @VikeMan's BrewCipher does this, I believe. Cheers!
     
  18. frozyn

    frozyn Maven (1,435) May 16, 2015 New York
    Trader

    77.
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  19. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    55* DH on round 2? You guys been doing that for a while? Recirc or resuspend with CO2?

    Just tried DH at 58 for 4 days and thought I got more vegetal character, only reason I ask.
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    BrewCipher does do IBUs for post boil hot side additions.
     
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