Founders announces Solid Gold Lager

JK, I am with you here. Everything I have read about rice is that it is flavor neutral. I have brewed using corn (flaked maize - 20% of the grain bill) and I have never perceived any flavors reminiscent of corn in those beers. Perhaps the corn adds some qualities of sweetness to those beers?

I purchased a 6-pack of Founders Gold (I still have a couple cans left) and I personally did not pick up any flavors that 'say' corn to me.

Cheers!

 

Agreed, but taste is the one argument that is purely subjective. The subtlety of flavor impacts from corn or rice is probably why folks base their dislike on so many other reasons, which are far easier to disprove.

 

I've brewed with flaked corn three times by now and I taste the ingredients along with the mash, wort and finished beer. Flaked corn on its own smells and tastes like generic cereal grains, dusty generic cereal grains, the mash takes on the flavor of the malt used along with sweetness, the wort ads flavor from the hops to the mix and bitterness, and the finished beer transforms the flavor via the fermentation and the yeast. I don't think it is possible to pick up on the flavor of the corn at that point. I will say however that I can taste a difference between an all malt macro beer and a macro adjunct lager beer, but it would be wrong to say it tastes like corn, it does not, it simply tastes like it's not all-malt.

 

Even more subjective than the subtlety of certain flavors are the cognitive biases created by expectations that something is the case. If I believe something is true that's what I'll find when I look even if it means ignoring certain things.

The difficulty is sorting out subtlety from expectations.

 

Patrik, do you perceive a quality of sweetness that you likely would not have otherwise in the beers where you used some corn?

Cheers!

 

Yeah, it'd be an interesting (but difficult) side-by-side taste test to conduct - put up very similar beers and ask the "supertasters" to pick out the one with rice, with corn or all-malt. Would have been interesting when Michelob or Heineken went all-malt or Coors switched from rice to corn syrup in recent decades to sample both versions or, if one could figure it out, those AB beers like Natural Light or Rolling Rock where the ingredients are listed as:

Knowing AB's technical prowess, I'm guessing they can get them pretty damn close.

Although, I am always impressed with the people who claim they can taste the corn in Budweiser.

 

Yes. I have percieved the beers made with corn to be slightly sweeter than my all malt home brews using 100% pilsner or pale ale malt. So my experience so far has been that it has produced a less dry tasting beer than a similar beer made with only malt. Which makes sense after all, when American adjunct lager beers were said to be lighter in flavor they weren't compared against single infusion all malt beers, but decoction mashed all-malt beers with a higher residual extract content. Everything is relative when compared to something else. Sweeter compared with what, drier compared with what etc.

 

That's where the cognitive bias comes in...

BTW, FYI the term "super taster" has a technical meaning in the sensory sciences and refers to people who are unusually sensitive to bitterness and so experience it more strongly than others. (They also seem to have many more tastebuds sensitive to bitterness than ordinary folks.)

 

Thanks for that input.

The beers that I have brewed using corn (flaked maize) have been my CAP beers which are heavily hopped in all three phased (bitterness, flavor and aroma). Given this hopping condition I am uncertain whether I can pinpoint the sweetness that corn can contribute. Perhaps if I brewed an all malt CAP (an oxymoron IMO) I would note the difference?

Cheers!

 

I've tried to use my homebrewing experiments as a way to tease out the difference produced by a particular ingredient to be able to experience it myself rather than read about it (or be told that it doesn't matter and makes no difference anyway, so there's no need to try it). I would personally feel it was worthwhile to try it out, alter that one parameter and see what difference it makes.

 

Yes, but I suspect there are fewer legitimate super-tasters than how often the term gets thrown around. There are people who claim to be a super-taster to justify picky eating habits [like my dad], or other cognitive biases.

 

I have homebrewed several beers over the years with flaked maize added to the grist, as well as many more beers that were all pilsner malt. With that experience, combined with drinking all-malt beers like Heineken and Michelob along with plenty AAL experience, I'll add my 2 cents worth regarding corn and rice adjuncts...

I never perceive a "corn" flavor with beers brewed with corn. Rolling Rock probably comes closest, with the flavor coming from DMS, not the use of corn in the grist. The use of adjuncts seems to thin the body of a beer, making it more drinkable, and less sweet/grainy/bready. I think a lot of factors can go into these descriptors besides adjunct use, like malt selection, mach temp, yeast selection, etc., but overall, this is what I perceive from corn/rice adjunct use.

 

I assumed I preferred the taste of corn to rice because I prefer Miller Beers to Budweiser beers (in blind tastings). But recently I've had a local craft option brewed with rice as well as a "fancy" imported Japanese beer brewed with rice and liked them both just fine. Whatever I'm picking up on, it ain't the rice the per se.

That said, I had a Modela Especiale in a blind tasting once and I could swear it smelled like tortilla chips. I worry that there might be a hate crime in there somewhere.

 

Some DMS maybe? See @scottakelly's post above.

 

Miller beers are brewed used corn syrup (dextrose).

Cheers!

 

Yet another nail in that coffin of a guess. Maybe I just don't like beechwood

 

I see that you have a winky eye here but I will respond anyway:

The beechwood strips (chips) that AB uses in their horizontal lagering tanks are cleaned/sanitized such that they are flavor neutral.

Producing lager beers are as much about brewing process and it is ingredient selection. Possibly there is something in the AB brewing process which results in beers that are not to your liking?

Have you ever read the Paste Magazine article discussing AAL (Macro Lager) beers? The top beers from their blind taste testing were brewed by MillerCoors. You seem to have a palate consistent with the Paste Magazine folks.

Cheers!

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...best-cheap-macro-lagers-blind-tasted-and.html

 

One of the many things I learned on this very site!

Honestly it could be as simple as negative associations from when I was a youngster since Bud products were most commonly on hand and even at the time I did not particularly enjoy drinking AAL's. I do recall thinking Michelob Light was better than most back then. If I could find some today I'd love to taste it again.

I always look forward to reading those. It was interesting to see Miller perform so well, but they ranked PBR even higher and I'm not a big fan so I guess we're not totally in sync.

Cheers indeed

 

Have you tasted Michelob Ultra?

FWIW Michelob Ultra came in at number 9 on the Paste Magazine list.

Cheers!

 

Yeah I have some friends who always have it (and Bud and Miller Light) on hand at the house. I do prefer it to Bud Light, but that's only because Ultra tastes like almost nothing instead of tasting bad. My memory is that Mich Light had more flavor than that but it's possible I was again simply responding to 'lack of bad taste' rather than 'presence of good taste'.