Sixpoint: Alpenflo Helles Lager

Discussion in 'Beer Releases' started by CNoj012, Dec 28, 2017.

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  1. SCW

    SCW Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2004 New York

    which also goes to show that a beer can be malty and dry at the same time...and also that when it is, its a delight!
     
  2. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    All of my favorite Oktoberfests start off slightly sweet and finish dry -- and are definitely balanced to malt, more than hops.
     
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  3. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    I haven't had one in awhile, but I recall Celebrator being dry to me. Although that's always been kind of an outlier in terms of Doppelbocks to my palate.
     
  4. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Is this still the case today?
     
  5. SCW

    SCW Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2004 New York

    To be clear, when someone says "they only uses aroma hops" that does not necessarily mean they don't add a bittering or flavor hop addition....the way I read it, at least
     
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  6. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Oh ok, because that's how I read it. And then I thought, "What is this, a New England IPL?" :wink:
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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    Germans differentiate between Aromahopfen (hop types with lower alpha acid -- AA -- content) and Bitterehopfen (higher). If I am not mistaken, saying they use only Aromahopfen doesn't mean they only go for aroma with their (late) additions, rather that they use lower AA hops for all their additions, and not, say, a charge of 13% AA Magnum at 60 min and then a charge of 4% Hallertau Mittelfrueh at 15 or 10 min. Happy to be corrected here if I am off base.
     
  8. SCW

    SCW Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2004 New York

    that's exactly how I read it as well
     
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    The discussion in this thread motivated to pull my book The Oxford Companion to Beer off the shelf and read the section on Helles (written by Conrad Seidl). There was an interesting part on the history of this beer style and I thought others might find it interesting too:

    “Spaten brewery finally introduced the first “real” helles on March 21, 1894, and promptly sent it for market testing to Hamburg, where it was a hit. The Munich natives, therefore, finally got their first taste of the new brew on June 20, 1895, under the label of Helles Lagerbier, a designation for which the German Imperial Patent Office awarded a registered trademark that same year. Tomasbräu then advertised its version of the helles, also in 1895, as “Thomasbräu-Pilsner—anerkannt vollwertigster Ersatz für böhmisches Pilsener” (“recognized as the most complete substitute for Bohemian Pilsener”). The success of the helles style brought about a stormy meeting of the Verein Münchener Brauereien (the Association of Munich Breweries) on November 7, 1895, where the owners of some of the largest breweries declared that they had no intention of making any pale lagers in the near future. They even drafted a resolution aimed at turning the clock back and forming an anti-pale-lager cartel, which would aim to preserve a local market for dunkel. The result of the meeting was disunity. The brewers who wanted to make helles simply went ahead, and those who did not, did not. The more forward looking of Munich’s beer barons, however, recognized that pale beers were the beers of the future, and all brewers soon started to rethink their policies. Still, it took Paulaner until 1928 to introduce its helles. Today, both helles and pilsner are roughly equal in popularity in Bavaria, with each holding about 25% of the market share. In the rest of Germany, however, helles remains virtually non-existent.”

    I found it particularly intriguing that in 1895 there was a movement to quash this heretic beer of Helles. Thank goodness this effort was unsuccessful and the Helles style continued and thrived.

    You can read the entire article here:

    https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/LAJp2DvaHt/helles/

    Cheers!
     
  10. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,161) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    Jack, thanks for sharing this! I particularly enjoyed the section about the beer barons recognizing that pale beers were the beers of the future and thus started to relent and brew pale beers ... I feel like there are parallels to modern day brewing there.
     
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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    As an ancient Greek philosopher so aptly put it:

    “The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”

    ― Heraclitus

    Cheers!
     
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  12. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Not sure.
    What HerrB said is pretty much what I figured as well -- not that there isn't any bitterness in the Augustiner Pales, but it's kept low due to the aroma hops that are lower alpha.
     
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  13. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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    Love Helles and glad it's here (and in Munich) to stay. Still, I would be happier if so many of the old, traditional Dunkels hadn't died out. Pretty hard to find a decent variety at the Munich breweries and beer gardens (and Fests) these days.
     
    #473 herrburgess, Apr 10, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  14. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I think the dryness in Celebrator is due more to ABV and the attenuation of the beer. My last tasting I distinctly remember a pepperiness (think black pepper spice) in the finish from alcohol.
     
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  15. grantcty

    grantcty Pundit (952) Feb 17, 2008 Minnesota
    Trader

    I'm in partial agreement with you as I think dunkel can still be found at quite a few places in/around Munich, but not quite as easy to find as it once was.

    Only Spaten out of the 'Big Six' don't brew a dunkel, and Ayinger, Andechs and Weihenstephan all brew one. I do agree that dunkels are definitely hard to find at the biergartens, but one is usually available at most of the restaurants/kellers. It was great to get a mass of dunkel at the Hofbraeuhaus and then a halbes of Altbairisch dunkel at Ayinger across the way.
     
  16. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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    Would be interesting to see what the ratio of Helles to Dunkles consumed is. (If I had to guess I'd go around 50:1.) I also bet a lot of interesting variations may have been lost since Helles took over. Different strengths and degrees of darkness, etc.
     
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  17. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I can wholeheartedly attest to that. Every Dunkel I've ever had since has to stand up to the last one I had at HB -- dee-lish.

    'Course, every Helles I've had since has had to stand up to the really fresh one I had at the HB sanctioned pub in Chicago (Uberstein) some years back -- was as fresh as the last one I had in Germany.
     
  18. WesMantooth

    WesMantooth Grand Pooh-Bah (4,820) Jan 8, 2014 Ohio
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    The Hofbrau Dunkel is really good. My favorite is still the Ayinger though
     
  19. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Have you had either or at the source? I agree that Ayinger's Dunkel is probably the best readily available bottled import (there are some other, less available imports that are damn good), but HB at one of their Munich houses will make you swoon. :wink:
     
  20. SCW

    SCW Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2004 New York

    IMHO the dunkel is the best beer they make - and perhaps the best in all of Munich - but Ayinger takes the crown for Helles (both the Lagerbier Hell and the Edelstoff are sublime)
     
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