Tipping for Growlers

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Hardcore, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well - I think we've both said our piece here and probably aren't going to change each others' minds.

    A lot of good points made from both sides and it didn't devolve into ad hominem attacks (too much). I think we can both agree that we would like better service, but have diverging opinions on how to achieve that goal. If only American political debates were as amicable.
     
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  2. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    As I said earlier - I treat tips as optional in "civilized places". I just realize that American servers are largely exploited wage slaves and I feel sympathy for them. I don't see much value in punishing servers for transgressions that are not their own - I will however gladly punish them for poor service, in which case they will receive a tip well below the societal norm.
     
  3. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah


    I'm tickled that I have a new meme from this thread - Gratuity Profilers & Gratuity Profiling. Love it! :slight_smile:
     
  4. tewaris

    tewaris Initiate (0) Jul 14, 2009 Minnesota

    E.g. Barley John's.
     
  5. Steasy66

    Steasy66 Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2012 Minnesota

    Make sure to tip 20% on that Dark Knight growler.
     
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  6. RedBeeron

    RedBeeron Initiate (0) Jul 7, 2012 California

    Needs the context of:
    in order to provide relevance.

    Also, we're now delving deep into the realm of thread hijacking :grinning:

    If I'm serving a group composed of adults with a child (or more), its actually more relevant to my bottom line to make sure i'm engaging the child more than the adults. There's a fine line between engaging and pandering, but again (based on personal experience) anyone with sufficient experience should know where that line is, and know when they're in danger of crossing it.

    Clearly our differing regions may skew things as there are three brewery restaurants i can think of in the greater SoCal area (Stone, Pizza Port, and to a lesser extent beachwood bbq), but I would be surprised if the service staff at those venues found that tables with kids demand more effort and tip less than, say, out of towners visiting for a 'beercation', or the tables with unnecessarily complex orders. The venn diagram overlap is probably the worst of all tippers, tbh. Further, none of the brewery restaurants i've provided as examples offer kids eat free nights (we typically see those sorts of offers at places where the serving staff should be expected to operate significantly below what would be an acceptable level).

    And, with all honesty, i'm a little perplexed as to how you can maintain the stance you do on tipping while knowing servers, unless they are the sort of servers you've described as being part of the problem.

    But hey, if honest insights
     
  7. Lordkrystic

    Lordkrystic Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Washington

    As a beertender in a craft beer bar it's my goal to give you good enough service to where it makes you wanna tip. It's already been said, but we also sanitize your growler, change caps if necessary, mark which beer is which on multiple growler fills, sample you up without complaint( even when you're on your fifth sample), and even tell a bawdy joke or make for some witty banter when th situation arises.

    As a whole in the craft beer bar scene the Benefits of being a reg and tipping are plentiful(not saying you gotta be a huge tipper). We run across sporting/concert/food and beer festival tickets that we love to give out, put people in contact for business gigs, seem to give food mistakes(and beer pour mistakes) to tippers, the semi occasional free beer, a great birthday, hand out free brewery schwag and samples, extra pours or growler fills of stuff that normally wouldn't go out in growlers, etc etc etc.

    I don't expect a tip but I sure do appreciate em and I like to think I earn them with at least semi extraordinary service.
     
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  8. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    N.B. California doesn't allow 'tip credit', so servers get the same minimum wage as everyone else - $8. In fact, every west coast state (AK, WA, OR, CA, HI) is the same. These states also have some of the highest minimum wages in the country. I don't feel like I've received appreciably worse service relative to the rest of the country, FWIW.
     
  9. Lordkrystic

    Lordkrystic Initiate (0) Jul 18, 2012 Washington

    I need to know abv, ibu, location of brewery, production capability of said brewery, special ingredients, variety of hops, any awards the brew has won, similar brews of that certain style, draft system repair, explanation of glass styles, not to mention being able to describe each beer style in a way that even joeblow can understand. Hell I get asked about OG even. If someone asks me when Abyss is going to be released, I like to say....why, November 15th. It's a lot of research. I often call breweries to ask questions about the beers.

    Man, all the sampling I have to do is just horrible. It's a rough job, but someone's gotta do it.
     
  10. JulianB

    JulianB Initiate (0) Feb 1, 2012 South Carolina

    When did the "societal norm" for tipping creep up from 15% to 18%, and now apparently 20%? Sometimes people act like I'm cheap if I tip 15% for standard service, which is pretty confusing since that's what my parents taught me to do growing up. Of course, for certain people like my favorite bartenders, I'll leave much larger tips sometimes (25-33% is not uncommon).
     
  11. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    Guilty here. Short of spitting in my food in front of me or punching me in the face when I ask for more napkins you're getting 20%. I've never had an outright rude server, but I do have slow/inattentive ones, but I always tend to make up excuses in my head as to why they aren't doing a great job and it usually involves them being down on their luck and really needing my tip money.
     
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  12. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    18% is the standard included tip for parties of 6 or more.

    You're correct in that there has definitely been tip 'inflation' but it's largely because the server wage has been frozen while the regular minimum wage has steadily increased. In 1991, the minimum wage was $4.25, and the minimum server wage was $2.13 (i.e. 50%). In 2012, the minimum wage is $7.25 and the minimum server wage is still $2.13 (now ~30%). Servers need to make $3/hr more in tips compared to 15 years ago just to keep pace with inflation, which matches the increase in the normal minimum wage (69.9% vs 70.5%).

    Here's the math for a server handling two two-person tables in an hour at a typical restaurant.
    ($2.13 + ($45.00*15%))*1.699=($2.13 + ($76.45*X%)
    In order to keep place with inflation the server needs to get tipped at 16.8% in 2012. Basically the customer is expected to shoulder more of the burden of paying servers rather than the employer.

    tl;dr - Servers expect more in tips these days because their base wage hasn't kept pace with inflation.
     
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  13. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Still not quite the same in MA. Even at brewpubs, growlers are prefilled.
     
  14. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Ah. In that case I probably wouldn't tip unless I had a particularly complex order. I'd consider it equivalent to buying a t-shirt/glass/other breweriana.
     
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  15. klaybie

    klaybie Zealot (633) Nov 15, 2009 Illinois

    As a server myself I am often surprised how well some people tip. As YemenMocha stated above I earn ~11 dollars an hour with tips alone, and ~15/hour with my hourly wage factored in. On topic, I always tip for a growler fill just as I would for a pint that I was staying there to drink. I still took some time away from the bartender (or whomever) that they could have spent with customers sitting there. That being said, it's usually $1 or $2 unless the person was super friendly and went way above and beyond.
     
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  16. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    Assuming restaurant pricing has kept on par with inflation. However I'm fairly certain it has exceeded the rate of most goods & services. So, the 16.8% is actually on a higher amount than in the past. I've posted charts in the past but lack time at the moment. Most of us are aware of this from personal experience too, especially with appetizer prices, soft drinks, and alcohol.

    It's hard to pin down the exact year(s) the change occurred, but we also switched from tipping on the tax also instead of the pre-tax total. Tax at restaurants is basically 10% here, so that's not insignificant.

    This is very relevant to the growlers topic at hand. While I obey the tipping customs nearly all of the time and hand over $2 for a typical $10 growler refill, I think many of us are going to stick to the lower end of the tip amounts when those growler prices creep up, or when the growler happens to be $25 for Tripel Karmeliet.
     
  17. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah


    With great frustration I obey the social norms for the most part. Only exceptions are that unlike most people I know, I will leave a really low tip or no tip if the service is absolutely atrocious. I tip above the norm to my most regular bartenders and servers who know us by name and know our orders before we sit down. I refuse to tip at areas of retail that are starting to put out tip jars because I want to stop the spread of this horrible tradition.
     
  18. EdH

    EdH Crusader (449) Jul 27, 2005 Utah

    If I'm going to tip a dollar to fill a pint glass, why wouldn't I for a growler -- especially if they do a good job of it?
     
  19. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,848) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think a point where we agree is that we like to see the gratuity have some correspondence to the service level and effort put forth. Hence the fixed tips on variable price products - giving $1 per beer whether it costs $5 or $10, giving $2 on a growler fill that is $10 or $35, etc. If the quality of service remains constant while the value of goods fluctuates, then the tip should remain constant.

    I can also sympathize with your observations on higher increases in price on food & beverage (which I'm not sure is inflation, but may rather correlate with actual COGs). I struggle with this sometimes at 'faux' fancy restaurants, where the service level isn't significantly better than value restaurants. Just because the food and beverage costs more doesn't always translate to the server doing more. I'd rather just go somewhere super-fancy where it's prix fixe and you're not expected to leave a gratuity unless the service is above-and-beyond (although in this case I know the servers are well-compensated).

    My ideal would be that all unskilled laborers should earn an hourly wage that keeps them out of poverty and tips should be commensurate on performance. However, in the US, the majority of server wages are not sufficient and it forces society to leave obligatory tips to 'bridge the gap'. The pragmatist in me follows societal convention because I don't want to anger people who serve products that I ingest.
     
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  20. Indybier

    Indybier Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2011 Illinois

    The brewers make a monster profit of these growlers - no tip. They're doing just fine.

    I don't tip my grocery person for selling me beer that I bag myself and carry to my car, either. That person makes much less than the tattooed hipster filling a jug and has no tip can sitting at the exit.
     
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