Splinter: Craft Beer's Moral High Ground Doesn't Apply To Its Workers

you don't have to own a business. you can be a freelancer, you can work for another company that pays better. i think (hope?) you understand my point.

Nah, I'm not man, because that would be me. I graduated college in 2009 with computer networking degree. Average graduate salary was $52k. I'm now 32 years old and am still not there yet.

 

I understand completely, but I think that you understand that in many industries, jobs with good pay are rare and freelancers/independent contractors don't make a lot of money and the money that they do make may come sporadically.

It's one hell of a big boat that we're all in, isn't it?

 

I had a feeling there was a bit more to the story. Thanks for looking into it.

I once worked for a call center after college. They treated their employees like shit, got paid like $15 an hour for college level tech support work. Their owner, Michael Ansara (more on him later), lived in Canada and owned a multi-milliondollar mansion on Martha's Vinyard. Nobody at the company made more than $20 an hour (I was offered a managerial position with 10x the workload but a $1.50 pay increase. I declined).

Anyway, Mr. Ansara is the walking symbol of hypocrisy. We eventually discovered he was a champion of workers unions (he was co-founder of the Students for a Democratic Society at Harvard) and worked heavily with the Teamsters union and was convicted of fraud.

-New York Times, "Behind Turmoil For Teamsters, Rush For Cash", Sept. 21st 1997

When we motioned to form a union with the IBEW to address the inequality, he dissolved the company (UpSource, Inc) when it was time to sign the CBA

What is my point? Corruption knows no bounds. There are shitty business owners and there are shitty union organizers. Some of these pigs rub elbows with scum like mobsters and politicians. To say that there is one solution to the problem is flat out ignorant.

I've done this before. It's pretty fun. I bust my ass for 2-3 hours and I get a free case of beer (or more) at the end of the day. I'd still be doing it if I hadn't moved away.

 

yeah, it's frustrating as all hell. if i could do it all over i wouldn't have gone to college.

i will concede that the job market still blows and the job requirements for good pay are very steep (i've seen people requiring masters for jobs that used to require just a bachelor's). despite all that i'm still a big believer that hardwork eventually pays off.

 

Yes, if I choose to continue to do long hours of hot dirty work for low wages and no other benefits, that’s on me (unless I’m poor, poorly educated for doing anything else, and/or unskilled in doing anything else). But if my employer complains loudly about the evils of big beer, the unfairness of the system and how he doesn’t get treated fairly by beer distributors or the system, he is a hypocrite. I may be stupid, but he’s unjust.

 

Indeed. Or I would have done something that required MUCH less schooling.

Here's to hoping.

 

I totally agree with you, you brought up a lot of good points and have first hand knowledge being a small business owner. We both know that workers love the thought of unions, unions promise top pay etc. But what most people don't get is you have to have a market that supports that pay, a business cannot operate and pay to that level if there is no market willing to pay the price you need to get in order to support a higher pay scale.
Case in point, look at states minimum wage laws and how a lot are going to $15 bucks an hour. Sure it looks great for people, to go from 7 bucks to 15 is massive. What they fail to leave out is companies cannot afford that so they either cut hours or fire people to offset the costs, so you have a group of people losing their jobs or the entire staff getting their hours cut. I think a lot of people are blind to the fact that you have to pay for it LOL. Money just does not fall from the sky, it has to come from somewhere.
I loved your printer example. I know first hand the union way growing up in Chicago. I spent 10 years working for a union construction company and know how that works. You each have your job and no one does the work of another because that is not how it works. You want to ride the elevator, well you have a union man hitting the button, etc. The company I worked for was a small family outfit and it was miserable for them, the costs were massive but you had no choice, you cannot work in the city unless your union, period, Now I am on the other side of the world in a right to work state where unions are not happening so I have both ends of that spectrum covered.
Sadly when it comes to jobs and pay experience is king. I have multiple degrees and 20 plus years work experience, in today's market it is my experience that gets me my pay, the college is just a piece of paper that does very little. The trick is having skills others don't and always working twice as hard as the next guy, seems to have worked for many.
Cheers and great post.

 

Pay is always low in the service sector, that has always been the case. Look at waitress folks, they get like 3 bucks an hour and tips. That is how it is in the field because a restaurant can only charge so much for eggs and coffee. I don't want to come across as mean but no one is going to make big money working for a brewery unless your the brewmaster or own it. The rest of the staff are just staff and will come and go. The owners (if successful) will do ok and if your a kick ass brewer and not an owner then you will get offers from comp to work for them etc. if your good.
Sadly in today's world it is hard, most kids graduate college and have a 12 buck an hour job waiting for them and lots of student loans. But people also have to educate themselves on the market and trends. You cannot go to college with blinders on and think when you come out your golden. That does not work today and people need to wake up and see what does. So my advice to anyone today is look into the trades, look into medical, accounting, legal, etc. People need to specialize to succeed.

 

Unions are the backbone of the worker. I've not worked in one non-union shop that was worth a damn. Of course a union is only as strong as the company is profitable, not every place can pay 20+ an hour. You can't leverage water from a rock.

I just assume most small breweries are a bad quarter away from closing, so I'll never work at one. Got a good job where I'm at anyway. Go where the money is at if that's what you want.

 

Naive, lol I guess my 20+ years work experience is Naive? LOL ok. I outlined sectors that pay very well and are in high demand, that is called good advice where I come from. Life is not easy, the sooner people understand that the better off they are. There are no free handouts, no easy road to success, you earn it and work as hard as it takes to achieve it.

By the way, the trades as I stated above don't require a post-grad degree?

 

He mentioned getting into the trades. Many of those don't require any degree, the ones that do are probably quite high paying. I agree that " go be a doctor or lawyer" is a pretty bad advice when I see it. Not everyone can do those kinda of things. The bummer is, even technical jobs are getting more technical and lower paying. We're all screwed, thank the man for that.

 

Thank you for pointing out my trade item. A lot of my friends are in the trades back in Chicago and make a very nice living, it is a great job and supports their family. I worked a long time in construction before I left for another career, it was a great job with great people and taught me hard work does pay. Trade work is coming back and pays very well, today people cannot do that work so young kids need to see this as a new game again, you can make great money if you learn your trade. Also you can open a business if your good and be your own boss.

I also agree Doctor and all is very hard, just saying it is a job that never will go out of demand. The world needs doctors and accountants lol. Also Govt. sector, if you can land a Govt. job you can score some premium benefits and pay, just have to work for it.
Cheers

 

@AZBeerDude72 @Lahey

While it may literally be true that trades don't require a college degree, that seems a bit misleading. How many well paying, stable trades (e.g., Plumber, Electrician, Bricklayer, or others with a likelihood of being around in the future) are there these days that don't require such things as post high school classroom work, one or more apprenticeships and some sort of certification?

 

Hey if anything we can sort out by political preferences. Personally I think they are destined to fail based on their pyramid-schemed retirement plans. There's a reason why my government/big business friends retire before 60 (more take home, no work, spiking, etc...). Safety practices can be instituted without a union and so can fair pay..

 

You will always need plumbers, electricians, and bricklayers. Those jobs will never go away, there is a reason they have been around forever. You join a trade and apprentice, that is how you learn your craft etc. Of course you may need to take some classes to learn certain skills or such that are part of your trade but that is something you do off hours after work, etc. I am just speaking for my experience and my friends. I have a bunch of buddies who currently work back in Chicago and they are making big money. One is a sheetmetal worker, the other is a bricklayer, and my last buddy is a crane operator. I never see trades not being in demand, you cannot have a modern society without them. Also, you have a high potential to open your own company also, a few of my friends did and are very successful, you just have to be good.

 

I agree that most of those trades will be around a long time (and tried to say so in my post). But you've avoided my basic question.

Which trades with such a future do you know of that don't require post high school class work, one or more apprenticeships, and certification of some sort. Such things can actually take longer than getting that piece of paper called a college diploma.

The issue as I see it isn't centered around having a piece of paper or not, but around learning/mastering habits of thought and skills that will carry one into the future (which is changing on us even as we speak).

 

I think there is a certain allure where craft beer patrons feel and /or see the owners on the tap room floor doing the grunt work and there is a certain organic appreciation. They may be grinding for years before 'striking it rich'. But when does that owner get to see the fruits of their labor? Would they feel different about him when he hires a brewer to do what he used to do (for pennies on the dollar), and when he gets a new BMW, and workers are leaving to go to where benefits are better? I hate to say it but we tend to hate seeing others achieve greatness.

Employees rarely get to see the fruits of major successes, like another one person mentioned, unless they were the brewmaster or owned the place.

I've looked around locally. Starting pay was near minimum wage for driving/packaging type jobs. One sees the owner with a new car and has to wonder why they're being paid so low. It's because so many youngsters are happy to be paid in beer. I know some places that offer 3 free beers/shift, or upwards of a case of core lineup beer/week in "bonus" pay. Sadly I feel we need to unveil and drop the allure curtain and realize, breweries are like any other sector out there. The small timey allure phase is OVER imho. I'm happy when these owners see the fruits of 5-6 years of free labor with a big house or fancy car. But the flip side is, there is always someone there to speculate about how you treat your workers. Craft beer has gone from a luxury sector to a real time normal manufacturing job. Shift brewers who simply push buttons seem to outnumber the original guys.

Lastly, wasnt there an article from a former Sam Adams worker who said they hated working there? I didnt read too many specifics or even know how they pay vs. others but we just seem to be a hateful society. It's finally creeping into the craft beer sector. But that also comes with creepy owners who skirt the law and are all about the profits. That will come with the huge growth craft beer has seen. It's all a percentage game imho