Splinter: Craft Beer's Moral High Ground Doesn't Apply To Its Workers

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by LambicPentameter, May 18, 2018.

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  1. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    As with any narrative description, casting things as either/or distorts history, the changes occurring over time and the present situation.

    Also, neither of the Union shops in which I once worked (beginning as the new kid on the block) is accurately described in your 2nd paragraph.

    But since the real issue in the OP and in the linked article is about hypocrisy...
     
  2. Lahey

    Lahey Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2016 Michigan

    My employers have every means to fire lazy workers, but they're too lazy to do it. The union doesn't make people unfireable, but it brings out the lazy in management for sure. One big excuse for them to not do their jobs.
     
  3. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Savant (1,236) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    What I described is by no means limited to unionized setups. IME they tend to not rely sort between big producers and people just squeaking by on the bare minimum (hardly something I'd strive for). I know in teaching for example, this is probably far from the case.

    Either way I'm not a big fan of entitled people complaining about jobs they (or their friends) are too good for. As usual, there's the option of every other job in the world besides the one you have, or strike out on your own and make the world as you see it. Bellyachin' never did nobody no good.
     
  4. rtrasr

    rtrasr Savant (1,032) Feb 16, 2009 Arkansas

    We are talking about small businesses operating in a highly competitive market. Of course, they won't pay as much and have the same benefits that multi-national corporate brewers have. It is hard to get too preachy about this. I believe in a minimum living wage too.
     
  5. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Yep. Being categorically anti-union is a strategy that denies good union work, workers, and the continued improvement of union policies. It is not a war...
     
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  6. pat61

    pat61 Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota

    Smaller businesses do not always pay as well as large corporations but they can have other benefits. They might be more flexible, they might align better with your personality or your cultural, social or political beliefs, they might offer more opportunity and they might give the worker more sense of ownership and involvement. As small businesses they are less apt to offer health care or some kind of retirement plan. When craft breweries are good, they can be really good but when they are bad they can really suck. When you are abused at AB-InBev or other large breweries there are generally procedures in place to protect you - although for a long time Coors was giving its employees lie detector tests. There are things with large breweries and large corporations that can be very frustrating for some people - there is more room for professional meeting growers and the bureaucracy can strangle new ideas. I have a lot of respect for unions and I think they have served many workers well but I don not think they are an effective industry-wide metric on how well workers are treated. 50 years ago as a member of the Teamsters union I worked in a Coca-Cola bottling plant as a warehouseman. The Teamsters treated the drivers very well but did not do much for the other people in the union.
     
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  7. ryan1788a5

    ryan1788a5 Pooh-Bah (2,062) Nov 27, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Agreed, but public perception sure seems to think they do. With all the "Us vs Evil Big Beer" rhetoric and plentiful media coverage championing craft breweries as small, local, darling heroes, that perception gets reinforced again and again. People eat it up and want to believe that their hobby and passion supports a greater good, and so wear blinders to a certain extent.

    I agree with others that the article could have used better sources/examples to outline its argument and am not advocating unionization as a blanket solution, but this piece at least sparks a talking point and sheds light on a subject that most are either blissfully unaware of or happy to sweep under the rug. Those who have spent time working in the industry have either directly experienced or heard plenty about terrible working conditions/labor practices in place at many a craft brewery. I was offered a couple of "work for free and we will train you" opportunities when I first tried to break into the industry years ago. It's bullshit, not to mention a complete liability. I can't think of any other industry where this is glamorized to the extent it is in craft beer either. There's a fine line between working hard to get where you want to be and having employers take advantage of you, and many craft breweries cross that line very clearly. Yet no one wants to call them on it. They'd rather rant against Big Beer or malign the craft brewery that just got bought out. The world is not black and white. Big Beer is not inherently bad nor craft beer inherently good. For a segment that has a purportedly more educated consumer base than most, I find it funny that it remains unaware of these labor issues concerning craft breweries, yet will vehemently rattle off any fault or transgression of Big Beer- alleged, imagined, or otherwise.

    I think all the pro/anti union banter has begun to derail this thread. I think the real talking point, as others have pointed out, is what I have touched upon above. Why is craft brewing almost universally seen as a wholesome and socially responsible endeavor? The craft beer industry feels like it has been slowly getting more and more sanctimonious over the years. The Us vs Them, David vs Big Beer Goliath rhetoric carried things for a good while, but now seems to have evolved into the slightly more subliminal Independent Craft talk and the little seal on the bottle that goes with it. Why are we all so concerned about whether or not a corporation owns the brewery making our beer? What does it really tell us about how that beer was made or how that company is run? People need to wake up.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Do you happen to know if the Brewers Association has a position on this topic?

    If they are anti-working for free, do they take any steps to 'enforce' their position?

    Cheers!

    Edit: On a separate topic, does the Brewers Association have published standards on brewery work safety and if so how do they 'enforce' them?
     
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  9. ryan1788a5

    ryan1788a5 Pooh-Bah (2,062) Nov 27, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Haven't heard of any such stance on their part, but I have no idea.

    However, it doesn't seem as if any of that is a stipulation as to who gets to use their spiffy new seal either:

    https://www.brewersassociation.org/...ng-advertising/independent-craft-brewer-seal/
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    And for me the Independent Craft Brewery Seal has no value. If they were to implement a seal which would detail that a brewery implemented and maintained (with periodic independent inspections) a Brewers Association worker safety standard then I would be influenced into supporting (i.e., purchasing) those beers.

    Cheers!
     
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  11. ryan1788a5

    ryan1788a5 Pooh-Bah (2,062) Nov 27, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Agree completely. I think the seal was a stupid idea that totally misses the mark and hate that the BA has decided to go in that direction. It tells you nothing about the quality of the liquid or the values of the company on the label. All it does is serve to promote a Big Beer/Corporation witch hunt. I realize it all came about because they were worried about Big Beer 'fooling' customers into thinking their brands were 'craft' and that they are pushing for transparency in that regard. Is that what really matters though? There are varying definitions of what 'craft' beer even is. Isn't it more important that people are getting consistent, quality beer and that the companies they choose to support are running a safe and responsible business? The seal does nothing to shed any light on that. I think there are many such things consumers would rather the seal signify than simply whether or not a brewery is independently owned.
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Amen!

    While there are innumerable other efforts that the Brewers Association could be making to promote a 'better' brewing industry.

    We have previously discussed the issue that breweries should compensate (i.e., pay) people who aid in beer production.

    And yes the Brewers Association could play an aggressive role in ensuring that breweries have comprehensive and conscientious worker safety programs.

    Maybe the Brewers Association could play an expediting role in ensuring that there are quality beers as in fresh beers available for sale to beer consumers. I would suspect that there is several things that can be learned from AB in this regard since they ensure that their partner wholesale distributors remove old (e.g., over 110 days in the case of Budweiser) beers from retailers shelves.

    I am confident that you could think of some more examples here.

    Cheers!
     
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  13. meefmoff

    meefmoff Pooh-Bah (1,922) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Personally I don't have any particular axe to grind against big beer specifically. To my admittedly limited knowledge they do not stand out as notably bad actors on the mega corporation scene.

    I do however feel that in general we have gone way past the point of healthiness in how consolidated we have let industries become. Budweiser was a huge national company that was bought by a huger multinational company and now also owns the huge companies that were their competition, Miller and Coors (who had previously merged), but not really because they had to spin off Molsen in the US or Canada, or something. I can't even keep up anymore despite JessKiddens best efforts to explain it all.

    I might say that people need to wake up about the ill effects of corporate consolidation and unchecked corporate power across multiple areas and levels in our society, but I'll try and stay above the fray on that one :wink:

    That's why I care anyway. Others I'm sure feel differently or care for other reasons.
     
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  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    The BA has online training for brewery safety, a safety ambassador, and so on.
    https://www.brewersassociation.org/?s=Safety

    Enforcement? What trade organization has workplace safety enforcement powers? I await your response.

    The brewers that I know say that they get OHSA visits that have to be complied to. Craft brewing is on OHSA’s radar now, according to them.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    As I already discussed above:

    "If they were to implement a seal which would detail that a brewery implemented and maintained (with periodic independent inspections) a Brewers Association worker safety standard then I would be influenced into supporting (i.e., purchasing) those beers."

    Needless to say it would be a voluntary decision whether a given brewery would want to comply to a Brewers Association worker safety standard/program to obtain that seal.

    Cheers!
     
  16. Druid_51

    Druid_51 Zealot (514) Aug 11, 2013 Kentucky
    Trader

    Why is this topic on this site?
     
  17. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    I could be way off, but my wild guess is beer.
     
  18. Druid_51

    Druid_51 Zealot (514) Aug 11, 2013 Kentucky
    Trader

    Seems more politically oriented than beer-centric
     
  19. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hey, don't bring me into this...but, yeah, you're not "keeping up"...

    ABInBev does not "now also (own) the huge companies that were their competition, Miller and Coors..."

    SABMiller and Molson Coors merged their US subsidiaries, Miller and Coors, into a US joint venture, MillerCoors, in 2008.

    That JV became wholly-owned by Molson Coors (which bought SABMiller's 58% share of MillerCoors from ABI for $12 billion) after ABInBev purchased SABMiller in 2016.

    Justice Department Requires Anheuser-Busch InBev to Divest Stake in MillerCoors

    "...but not really because they had to spin off Molsen in the US or Canada, or something.."

    Again, no. ABI never owned or attempted to purchase "Molson" (actually Molson Coors Canada, the Canadian subsidiary of Molson Coors) - so there was no "spin off".
     
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  20. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    Sometimes beer is political. Like it or not.
     
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