Tired Hands (June 2018)

Another 'vote' for Bonn Place Brewing. I visited a few months ago and I was able to drink the two beers they won GABF medals last year; those two beers were very, very good!

Cheers!

 

Damn, was hoping for a Wednesday release. Can't make a Thursday one.

 

Did they post Thursday?

 

Not yet but they haven't posted yet about tomorrow so I'm losing hope haha. Usually announced by now

 

Can you make a Friday one?

 

Not ideal. Made arrangements for tomorrow. Was getting beer for groomsmen.

 

Boo. Gonna be in Philly for U2 tomorrow. Can't do Thursday.

 

Bummer man, maybe they'll announce it tonight. It's happened before where they did a late announcement.

 

Single Vanilla shake and Refreshing tomorrow. You think I'll get both if I'm in line at 5?

 

Yes

 

I just hope it's 3 4 packs per person.

 

I’ve never had a brewery properly fill a growler and leave headspace, as that introduces oxygen. I’m no rocket scientist, but headspace would likely result in more pressure, as it could allow latent CO2 in the liquid to expand into gas form. The liquid itself is not going to exert any pressure on the glass, as the liquid is not compressed in any sense. In any case, any pressure that would be contained in the growler would be evenly distributed (no “pressure points” per se) - breakage would occur at natural weak points in the glass due to manufacturing defect, or design.

 

Liquid expands when warmed as well so you need some headspace for that liquid to expand into. I would assume CO2 escaping from solution is not as much a problem as H2O expansion. Defective glassware compounded by no space for volume expansion could have been the issue. Growlers and bottles fail when frozen.

 

http://www.draughtquality.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Facts-About-Growlers-v1.pdf

The liquid can become compressed, if it is warmed and there isn't excess volume to accommodate the higher volume of beer. I've never measured, but my guess is that beer warms rapidly as it goes from tap to growler. Especially in a summer, and especially in a hot trunk, that growler is going to be under more pressure than it was designed to hold, without space for the beer to expand into as it warms.

Also, when you move a growler, it causes CO2 to come out of solution. Headspace provides a place for that CO2 to go out of, and come into, solution with the beer. Without headspace, any CO2 that gets jostled out of solution is going to exert added pressure on the container, on various places instead of just at the neck/cap. It's not uniform pressure, which can lead to failure.

In other words, leave headspace in growlers when you fill them. Always.

 

Liquid doesn't expand as much as an equivalent volume of gas, though.

This is sound reasoning on the surface, but there is no "excess volume" in a sealed container. And the pressures required to compress a liquid is extreme (any glass will fail first). Yes, if subjected to extreme temperatures expansion will occur and the growler could/will fail. But it has little, if anything, to do with the fill level. Interestingly, according to some formulas presented in this source (pertaining to a scenario with sealed glass bottles), the volume of air (gas) makes no difference (admittedly, this does not entertain the scenario of a complete fill, but the formulas still apply): https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...ed-partially-filled-bottle-will-explode-first

I'd much rather see a fill to the top (foam is ok as part of this) that minimizes oxygen and preserves the beer quality. I try to minimize the time spent out of a fridge anyway, for similar quality reasons.

This isn't accurate - more gaseous CO2 wouldn't displace headspace, just increase pressure. At stable temperature and motion, headspace (if any) is at equilibrium with the liquid. The internal pressure will increase when any CO2 moves from liquid to gas, regardless of how much gas is already in the container. Yes, an increase in pressure could cause a failure of the glass, but as noted above this isn't due to lack (or presence) of headspace.

Again, pressure is uniform within the sealed container. It's the glass which is not uniform, for various reasons.

 

Maybe I’ll have my chemistry students work on a project and explore all the possibilities here. I’ll throw it in when I teach the gas laws. I’m sure the kids would love it, parents maybe not so kickback.

 

How do you figure? If there is excess headspace, the liquid can expand into the excess space. The gas in the headspace will be forced into solution with the liquid, but it will not exert additional pressure on the container. If there is no excess headspace, the liquid will exert additional pressure on its container. If the container is rated to handle the excess pressure, it's no big deal. Glass growlers are not, however.

Yes, but that equilibrium involves a constant exchange of gas where the liquid meets the gas in the headspace. Any CO2 forced out of solution is going to enter the headspace, and an equal amount of headspace gas is, eventually, going to enter back into solution with the liquid once the agitation stops. This does cause additional pressure at the neck when the CO2 is forced out through agitation, but bottles are designed with thicker necks for precisely this reason.

The system is not at equilibrium when it is in motion, either. That's the point. Headspace ensures that the effects on the additional pressure exerted by the contents are concentrated in one area, because the gas escapes the liquid and enters the headspace where the container has been designed to handle it. If you don't leave headspace, the excess pressure from agitation and warming is exerted across the body of the growler, which is not designed to handle it. Thus, the glass fails.

 

Good link . That's coming from the Brewers Association, and gives definitive numbers:
"The internal pressure of a filled growler warmed to room temperature (68F) or in a hot car (90F) may be as high as 2.0 atm (29 psi) or 3.7 atm (52 psig) respectively. (Example assumes a growler filled to 99% of capacity with beer at 38F containing 2.5 volumes CO2, and then sealed)."

Tired Hands reasoning behind their growler policy (only filling branded glassware) is because they want to be proud of their growler beer. Then they should drop the coin on a counter pressure filler. Places like Victory and Sly Fox have them.

 

Hey Guys,

My brother is coming to Philadelphia for a conference june 22-26 and wants to hit Tired Hands. What is the deal with can releases and do they always sell out? Also interested in any other breweries yall recommend, he likes NEIPAs and some sours. Packaged beer is a plus as he wants to bring some stuff home.

Thanks in advance.

 

I always tell people to go to second district and/or crime and punishment. Two low key places making great beer. New yards brewery is probably great, sadly I haven’t gotten there yet.