Pliny-Type Double IPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by hoptualBrew, Jun 14, 2018.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Thanks for that tip. I listened to the podcast and it was stated that high(er) bittered beers would experience a reduction in iso-alpha acids with high dry hopping rates. But later in the podcast (at around 12:00) he stated that the IBUs go up with increased dry hopping (but perceived bitterness was lessened).

    So, it appears that with high dry hopping rates the IBU value is increased vs. decreased.

    Do you have a differing understanding?

    Cheers!

    http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/004-dry-hopping-its-effects-on-bitterness-and-the-ibu-test-0

    @telejunkie
     
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  2. Buck89

    Buck89 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,718) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Last year, I emailed Vinnie to confirm the Zymurgy recipe that listed 3.5 oz of Columbus at 90 minutes (6 gals). Such a great guy - he replied the same day:

    "That is correct, there is a very large hop charge at the beginning of the boil for a firm, crisp bitterness which is a cornerstone of PTE. Regarding the high BU, keep in mind there is a difference between calculated and analyzed. A BU calculator does not take into the account the loss of efficiency and utilization as more hops go in. However, all the additional hops are still contributing flavor, aroma, and sometimes polyphenols. We use so much bittering hops in PTE we actually use hop extract which is basically concentrated hops. This eliminates much of the green matter from the hops but also gains us wort as we limit our losses."
     
  3. wasatchback

    wasatchback Maven (1,460) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    I believe they also adjust their boil PH to not extract as harsh of a bitterness.. or at least did
     
  4. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I've had so many tactical NEIPAs lately, that Pliny seems less awesome, but still in strategic fusion territory :flushed: cheers all
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Barry, you are indeed an enigma wrapped in a riddle!:confused:

    Cheers!
     
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  6. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Not really...just inebriated, cheers, Jack
     
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  7. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    What do you mean? They acidify their kettle collection prior to boiling? From my understanding a more alkaline pH extracts more bitterness and harshness from hops.
     
  8. wasatchback

    wasatchback Maven (1,460) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Lowering the PH by adding acid would make it less alkaline..
     
  9. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    @wasatchback , I understand that lol. My question is: is my understanding of pH and hop correct? More alkaline wort yields higher isomerization rates, but also more harshness from hop?
     
  10. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    And to add on to that... is this a practice that helps round out heavily hopped beers? Acidify the preboil wort for a rounder hop character?
     
  11. wasatchback

    wasatchback Maven (1,460) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Lower PH will result in a less harsh bitterness but yes less extraction of alpha acids.
     
  12. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Is there a known blind pig clone? Blind Pig is waaaay better than Pliny.
     
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,291) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    :open_mouth: You just go and wash your mouth out with beer!! :scream:
     
  14. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

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  15. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    mmmm bitter....
     
  16. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,122) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'm curious about the sugar. Does anyone know if Russian River is actually using sugar in it? I can understand why they would use the sugar, but at the same time it's not a monster beer at 17 Plato.
     
  17. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Plinys yes...lightens the body somewhat also
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Jim, you might be interested in reading what Vinnie wrote concerning the fermentables for PtE (with emphasis in bold by me):

    “Obviously hops will be your primary concern when building a Double IPA recipe. But before we talk hops, let’s talk malt and yeast. In my opinion, the malt bill for a Double IPA should be simple. It doesn’t need to be anything more than two-row malt, Carapils (dextrin) malt, crystal malt, and possibly some acidulated malt. Beyond that, I highly suggest you use some dextrose (corn sugar) in the boil to help bump up the gravity. Not only will the use of sugar help bring up the gravity of the wort, but because there are simple sugars that the yeast can ferment straight through, you will end up with a lighter bodied beer. This is of course purely up to you; I personally like to drink a Double IPA that is light in body thus allowing the hops to plow through the overall flavor profile of the beer. If you like more body in your Double IPA, I would suggest you replace all or some of the sugar with more two-row malt to achieve an abv around 8 to 9 percent.”

    https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf

    When I brewed my version of a PtE I thought it would come out dry enough without the utilization of sugar and I was correct here (for my palate).

    Cheers!

    P.S. As to whether Vinnie uses sugar at Russian River to brew PtE my guess is that he does based upon his strong verbiage above.
     
  19. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    @JackHorzempa , another bonus for sugar is increased gravity without gaining SRM. Nice to see 8% abv DIPA in the 4-5 SRM range.
     
  20. jricharc

    jricharc Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2012 Virginia

    Just transferred mine to the keg, I cannot wait to try it. I upped the dry hops by a few ounces so I am hoping its got some great aroma.
     
    thebriansmaude and hoptualBrew like this.
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