The Half-Acre thread (2018)

Fine by me. Beer sells out too fast nowadays anyway; put these 4-packs at $20 and make the people who really want 'em vote with their money.

 

Vehemently disagree. I'd way rather pricing be less, even if it means I miss out on a beer, than prices be high.

My fear a year or two ago when JIL first hit the market at over $20, is that we'd start seeing this be the norm. Nowadays, it seems like my fears were pretty well founded.

Perhaps it's that I've been in this community for a decade, but craft beer used to be a thing that essentially anyone could get into. Even the very best/most expensive beers were relatively affordable. Is $20 a four pack affordable? Sure, but I think we are definitely seeing a trend devleoping here.

 

I was partially being facetious, but the truth is this:

I'm fine paying $20 for a 4-pack, if it's from a brewery that typically charges less (meaning it's a "premium" for whatever reason). I don't want all HA releases to change to $20 overnight, but I'm okay with it when it's a special release like Sailor's Kush or Preen. My assumption is that these beers are more expensive to produce than the typical one-off (although people were already complaining when HA was regularly charging $15 for a 4-pack), and I'd rather they continue to produce this sort of stuff than not.

Another example was Power Trip from FR. It's my favorite beer of theirs, and it was more expensive and super-hopped than any of their other stuff. I'd rather beers like that existed, then not drink them, and save $5 a 4-pack.

In terms of "general accessibility," I think that train already left the station; there are plenty of beers priced out of the casual drinker's budget, and a decent amount that plenty of people here on BA blanche at. I think HA does a good job of having a variety of types of beers (your Daisy Cutter/Tuna/Pony types, your Space/Navaja types, and some "bigger" one-offs), and I think that's perfectly fair to everyone.

 

I think @SeanBond is 100% percent correct. Are there some breweries out there that use hype to justify high costs? sure. But HA is certainly not one of them. As drinkers we are always looking for something new, something with more hops, more vanilla, more fruit. Those things have a real cost associated with them. Small brewers already have such an uphill battle im not going to bitch about them marking there margins. Beers that cost more to make are more expensive.

 

@SeanBond is 100% percent correct. Are there some breweries out there that use hype to justify high costs? sure. But HA is certainly not one of them. As drinkers we are always looking for something new, something with more hops, more vanilla, more fruit. Those things have a real cost associated with them. Small brewers already have such an uphill battle im not going to bitch about them marking there margins. Beers that cost more to make are more expensive.[/QUOTE]

I think there was a thread in the general forums about why NEIPAs cost so much. Essentially it comes down to brewers charging a premium for them, not the ingredients.... and of course brewers are going to defend their cash cow and tell you it's the ingredients while cleaning up on the margins.

 

Based on evidence and common sense, I agree that the cost of ingredients is a marginal factor in the price jump. Think a few extra pounds of hops per barrel (say $10/lb, which is probably even too high) when a barrel yields 200+ cans.

However, I won’t fault them for charging more for a one-off or premium release. There are tangible extra costs associated with branding and packaging, opportunity costs for devoting tanks and staff to oversee beer handled with a different process, and risks associated with trying things that may even result in rejected (dumped) batches that don’t meet expectations or quality standards.

To @SeanBond ’s point, this is somewhat the price of innovation and novelty. As the industry continues to produce quality examples of this relatively new style and optimize methods (I firmly believe a considerable amount of what we’ve seen this far are poor, bandwagon examples), I think we will see price competition kick in. However, it may not be especially obvious given general price escalation across craft. I maintain my position that as long as packaged beer is less than draft, I’ll generally feel like I’m getting a fair deal.

 

Yes, but they have those same risks for an $8 6 pack of craft lager so I'm sticking to the premium beers being high margin for them.

 

It's not only the cost of more hops per bbl (which in some cases is even double that of a standard IPA), but this amount of hops also usually leads to a lower yield of actual drinkable beer at the end of the process. so of course that increases costs on more than just the idea that the amount of hops costs more money, but also in the amount of liquid those hops soak up/consume themselves vs what ends up in the final packaged product/kegs.

 

Fair point, but wasn’t Knowplace upwards of $16? (16oz 4-pack, equivalent to the old conventional 6-pack).

 

I should also say that I’m really just defending my poor decision to buy in at the high price point. But part of that I attribute to Half Acre (and others, like Pipeworks) making it easy to sample the wares before purchase. I hesitate much more, and often pass, before spending $12+ per 4-pack at a store, for something I haven’t even tried.

 

I know it’s the HA forum, but a while back, @KrajDoesBeer broke down the price pretty well in the Forbidden Root thread that I have no desire to go and find.

If I recall correctly, it’s the dry hopping that raises the price - why they also found that there’s a definite saturation point (pardon the pun) and diminishing returns when it comes to dry hopping.

I haven’t had fully saturated DDC, but considering Double Daisy by itself is a Pale Ale turned up to 11, it’s completely reasonable that the monster version of Double Daisy is 20% more expensive.

And also, if you guys haven’t tried Diamond 75 - Half Acre’s Dive Bar beer brewed specifically in honor of Archie’s Tavern 75th anniversary - you should check it out. It’s excellent and only available at Archie’s. I honestly wish this was available as HA house beer.

Also, if you haven’t been to Archie’s, you should check it out. Best dive bar in the city, and they also have decent craft selection if yourre completely opposed to Hamm’s and High Life. They still have Big Hugs can s.

They’re down to their last couple cases of the Diamond 75 Lager, so enjoy it before it’s gone forever.

 

Don’t forget like any bigger company or ones that have been around longer- they have older, better contracts and can also buy in larger quantities therefore making hops cheaper.

 

That would be a prime example of a beer company jacking up their margins because they can. Do you really think it costs twice the price to make of other craft lagers? But I can get a 4 pack of their Vallejo for $8.99.

As someone pointed out in the the Why are NEIPAs so Expensive thread, Treehouse stated how much hops they use in batches of their beer. If the pinnacle of NEIPAs use far less hops than what others are claiming to use for their not as well regarded beer, why are we paying for inefficiencies on the other brewer's end?

 

Totally unscientific, but typically my thought process goes like this:

1) Is the beer really f**king good?
2) Does it taste like there's a shitload of hops in it?

If yes to both, I'm okay paying a premium. If it tastes like a "typical" beer, then I won't necessarily feel ripped off, but I also won't buy more. I've had a lot of HA IPAs, and most of them are a little "samey" to me (outside of the hop bill, obviously), so if one of their beers stands out above the rest, I'm typically okay paying a little extra. Preen and Sailor's Kush are the best examples I've got (both super saturated with hops, dank as hell, and tasty as shit).

That's a pretty harsh point to make. Au Cheval's burger is $16 with bacon (don't tell me you don't get the bacon, I don't want to hear that); I'm not going to have another $16 burger and say, "nah, you can't charge $16 for this, it's not as good." There are a million economics reasons why these beers are priced like they are (the price of doing business in Chicago vs. buttfuck Massachusetts among others), and even if there weren't, quality is subjective. I get the point that "if HA is using way more hops than Treehouse but not putting out a Treehouse-caliber beer, why should I pay more for the former?" but that's not really a fair point to make (and HA is one of the few non-NE bastions in Chicago right now, so I'm actually really grateful they don't make Treehouse-style beers).

Fair point. HA has even the super-limited one-offs available to sample, so it's not like they make you purchase sight-unseen. I have spent a lot of money on non-HA beers that I've regretted, and that's rarely an issue with HA for this reason.

 

Economic reasons? Oh yeah, the cost of doing business in MA vs Chicago, right. Just like how Transient has to sell 4 packs for $20 because the cost of doing business in nowhere Michigan was so much more expensive than Chicago?

The fact of the matter is beer fans are deluding themselves and propagating the myth of why $20 beer prices are justified by saying they are more expensive to make. Just tell the truth, you really like beer and have no problem paying a premium for it even though that extra $1 of hops carries an $8 increase on the price of the 4 pack.

 

I mean, am I wrong? I was under the impression that Chicago was one of the more expensive places to be a brewery, due to liquor taxes and shit. We've already established that HA has affordable options, so even if that isn't the case, we're not talking a brewery that sells everything at $20 a pop.

Speaking of Transient, I freely admitted at the time (that legendary first drop of JiL) that I thought it was worth $20 a 4-pack based on taste (not something I'd do often, but worth it every once in a while). I don't know Transient's expenses, nor am I concerned with them (I never see their stuff on shelves, and am not heading to Michigan any time soon).

"The fact of the matter is beer fans are deluding themselves and propagating the myth of why $20 beer prices are justified by saying they are more expensive to make."

Again, this is a HA thread, and HA rarely releases beers for $20 a pack. If that were the typical price, I think you'd find that many of us would be posting more to the tune of "I buy their stuff once in a while, but it's hard to justify when there's $15 packs of Hop Butcher and FR cans sitting on shelves, not to mention all the other stuff even cheaper." Maybe they are randomly jacking up prices on stuff like Fully Saturated and Preen, but given their typical pricing, it's not crazy to assume that there was an increased cost in production. Even Treehouse has a variety of different prices for their different beers.

 

$20!? You could get the Wendy's 4 for 4 five times over for that!

 

I'm not even going to pretend like that's not a legit point.

On the other hand, as great as it is, Wendy's ain't gettin' me drunk.

 

I am skeptical as to how much this does (or should) impact the cost of a 4 pack of cans. I don't doubt that it's more expensive to own land in Chicago as opposed to the middle of MA, but I'm curious how much that comes through in the bottom line of prices. I also have no idea how much the liquor taxes actually impact price either. I'd love to hear from someone who is completely knowledgeable about those factors.

 

My point wasn't specific to Half Acre or FSDDC, it was more a general reply to your comment, "Beer sells out too fast nowadays anyway; put these 4-packs at $20 and make the people who really want 'em vote with their money."

I get that it was said partially in jest, and in the context of FSDDC. I meant my reply to be more general and do agree that Half Acre tends to be one of the best breweries in Chicago in terms of pricing (or anything, for that matter).

I think is is undeniable though that more and more breweries are charging more and more for their beer, and this includes beers that really shouldn't be that expensive. Your point that "the train has already left the station" is kind of a point I'm making as well, and it's really unfortunate.