Yeast too funky to use ?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by redgorillabreath, Aug 25, 2018.

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  1. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I was going to brew a pre-prohibition lager tomorrow with S-23 that I harvested from a batch of a double-bock on 6-May-2018. That batch was my first use of S-23.

    When I opened the jar yesterday to get the starter going, it smelled pretty questionable. Since I had the wort ready for the 1st step of the starter, I figured I might as well see where it goes. As of about 16 hours after “starting”, the aroma is coming around.

    I haven’t been washing my harvested yeast, including at the time of re-use. Only good results to date, but perhaps the little bit of trub is a factor this time?

    Does anyone know if this is just characteristic of S-23? I can tell that the yeast is a little “different” from what I’m used to. 1month after bottling, the bock tasted weird to me, but not to others. Several weeks later now it’s cleaning up nicely and turning out to be a respectable brew.

    Cheers!!!
     
    #1 redgorillabreath, Aug 25, 2018
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  2. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    What's "questionable" smell like? Like autolysis/wet cat food/canned meat/vegemite or something else? If your starter smells OK, I'd say it's OK to use.
     
    #2 EvenMoreJesus, Aug 25, 2018
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  3. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I's say like autolysis...a little acidic, which gave me concern, since I could see some bacteria hitching a ride giving rise to that, too. The "scary" aromas are decreasing, and it's coming down to whether this yeast's aroma is this distinctive. I recall last time that it was a lot heavier in the belgain type aromas than I was expecting. It's not the same this time as last. And since it just got done fermenting something at 8.7%, it may not be too surprising if the character is a little different this time around.

    I suppose the safest approach is to put this starter aside and get a new starter going over the next week and hit it next weekend. I could get a little of that wort and ferment it with this S-23 starter at that point and see how it turns out.

    Also, I just got a chore to do for the father-in-law tomorrow, so it looks like brew-day just vaporized anyway. That's OK...build the good karma.
     
    #3 redgorillabreath, Aug 25, 2018
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  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I do not like this yeast. IMO, it puts out off-putting fruity notes. Fruity is not great for lagers, but really, in this case, it's just not great, period. One of the first lager I ever made was with this, and it was pretty bad. I returned to it a couple years ago, after I had several successful lagers under my belt, figuring that I was at fault the first time around, because I was inexperienced with lagers. After the more recent go with it, I decided it was not my fault and swore it off.
     
    #4 pweis909, Aug 25, 2018
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  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    There's your problem...better to harvest from a low gravity beer...or just buy more S-23...it's fairly cheap.
     
    #5 GreenKrusty101, Aug 25, 2018
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  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm pretty sure autolysis actually increases pH, i.e. makes it less acidic.
     
    #6 VikeMan, Aug 25, 2018
  7. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I remember you commenting on that some time ago, and it made me curious. I share your opinion now. It was a close call on the bock.
     
    #7 redgorillabreath, Aug 26, 2018
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  8. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I don’t have as many batches under my belt as others, but I haven’t had this problem with other yeasts up to 4th gen on 9%+ ales.

    It’s lokking like the nature of the ...yeast.
     
    #8 redgorillabreath, Aug 26, 2018
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  9. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I’ll have to read up on that aspect.

    Also, the yeast was about 100 days old, and kept in the fridge. Maybe not that much autolysis in reality.
     
    #9 redgorillabreath, Aug 26, 2018
  10. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    if the beer made is 8abv or more i junk the yeast.
    since your beer is cleaning up after a bit of age, must be its alright.

    new yeast always works well for me and as @GreenKrusty101 says, its fairly cheap./

    go Krusty
     
    #10 GormBrewhouse, Aug 26, 2018
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  11. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    Same here. I have brewed with S-23 several times and noted the same fruity characteristics. Price is the same so I always opt for 34/70 if I'm in a jam. We call 34/70 the workhorse in my homebrewery since it's basically foolproof. Ferment it warm or cold, doesn't really matter as long as you lager it after the fact.

    I do think there are some more characterful liquid lager strains, but if I'm brewing Rauchbier I'm brewing with 34/70 95% of the time.
     
    #11 Seacoastbrewer, Aug 27, 2018
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  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I liked all my beers that I brewed with 34/70. I haven’t brewed many lagers with liquid strains, but did a side by side pils liquid and 34/70 and thought both good but liquid strain was better. Don’t recall which one I used. I want to say 830 or 833.
     
    #12 pweis909, Aug 27, 2018
  13. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    That's a very long time to keep yeast in your fridge. I'm sure most of it is dead and in bad shape.

    There's also a great risk of contamination showing up in that time frame.

    Also, harvesting from that big of a beer will also be detrimental to the yeast health.

    Save the beer and buy a new pitch.
     
    #13 Eriktheipaman, Aug 28, 2018
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