The craft beer industry: beer quality problems

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackHorzempa, Sep 8, 2018.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    On subsequent orders did the Wholesale Distributors provide you with fresh(er) product?
    I would imagine that some would say that would be the best course of action.

    And remember: @JohnnyChicago says "speak up"!

    Cheers!
     
  2. Squire

    Squire Grand Pooh-Bah (4,385) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Unfortunately it's the retailers that get the brunt of this and it's not a problem of their own making.
     
  3. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Oh yeah...every time.

    I’m already salty about having to spend 9 bucks for a Green Line at Wrigley Field, but when it’s 4 months only and tastes like grass, they are definitely gonna hear it from me!
     
  4. MetroWineAndSpirits

    MetroWineAndSpirits Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2018 District of Columbia

    They'll send fresher product on most occasions or give credit towards other things.

    As another poster said, lots of people in the industry (retailers, distributors, etc) could care less about product freshness. The only way to initiate real change is for people to check dates and not buy old stuff! Which I have noticed more people doing recently.
     
  5. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    It's not the responsibility of the retailer (regardless of ethnicity) to do it.
    The National Beer Wholesalers Association agrees:
     
  6. MetroWineAndSpirits

    MetroWineAndSpirits Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2018 District of Columbia

    IMO the way the 3-tier system is set up removes any incentive for distributors to take any of those steps to ensure quality.
     
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  7. ryan1788a5

    ryan1788a5 Pooh-Bah (2,062) Nov 27, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    This is about the long and the short of it. Nobody wants to take responsibility for ooc (industry abbreviation for out of code) beer. In reality I think everyone in the three tier system bears some responsibility, and it isn't really fair to pin it all on one tier.

    Suppliers (Brewers) need to make sure they producing to demand (admittedly very tough to do sometimes) and not getting backlogged with product or trying to push excess product on the distributors. They should also print clear freshness codes and set forth clear shelf standards. They also need to be careful when signing contracts with their distributors and clearly state their ooc policies and expectations in the contract.

    Distributors need to monitor codes at the warehouse level and stay in communication with the brewery regarding stock levels and close code product. They, too, need to watch their ordering and forecasting (also very difficult). They should also set forth expectations for their sales team as to what they should do about ooc beer at retail, and make sure they curb any potentially over-zealous salesmen that might try to pump an account full of too much product.

    Retailers need to buy smart. Don't over-buy and get yourself saddled with too much product. Watch codes on the shelf. Rotate stock and place close code product on sale to move it before it becomes an issue. Do your part to sell the beer and care for your product.

    I don't expect the BA to be able to do much about the issue other than to educate/advise on a set of best practices or something along those lines. Laws vary state to state on how ooc beer can be handled or removed from retail. Some states make it very tough for a distributor to even do that. Additionally, as I mentioned above, each brewery signs their own contract with a distributor and needs to spell out their own ooc policy. Some contracts will outline a 50/50 bill back to the brewery for ooc removed from retail, some contracts will not accept any bill back whatsoever, etc. There's a ton of moving parts and variables at play here.
     
  8. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Besides compelling/advising brewers to date their beers, they should also be urged to be consistent in the format, location, font, meaning, etc. Determining the date of a beer should not require a secret decoder ring or a microscope! Tell us the bottling/canning date in a standard non-julian format. If they want to ALSO tell us the expiration date, that's fine - but be clear about which date means what.

    I've said it before, they missed a great opportunity when they came out with the new independent craft brewing logo; they could have reserved a white-space under it where the brewer would stamp the born-on date.

    Yes - lots of barriers, and it could take years since dating equipment is a significant investment and not all breweries could afford this right away. Still, start doing it, and folks will come aboard as possible. And the Brewer's Association should be able to recommend this if no controlling members oppose it.
     
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  9. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    This is a great write-up. I sold beer across multiple states long ago and the difference in laws, particularly out of code, is staggering.
    Don’t buy this ‘it’s difficult to date’ BS, man. You are absolutely right! Every brewery should be putting a packaging date somewhere on the package. There’s no excuse.

    There are dozens of date-coding options out there nowadays that meet many budgets. If you can’t afford the cheapest one, you should be packaging a small enough volume where you can have a packaging specialist mark every box/tray with a sharpie.

    I give Sam Adams/Jim Koch a hard time on these forums occasionally, but he posted a bit where he showed their early coding method involving a stack of labels, a table saw, and 5 seconds.

    Anyone who isn’t putting a date on their beer is doing it on purpose for one reason or another and there likely isn’t anything the BA can do to convince them otherwise.
     
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  10. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    What can be done is get some of the big hitters behind it, and the others will slowly be shamed into following. If at least some of them can't agree on this, then just shut down the BA and don't bother pretending to cooperate to improve craft.
     
    #30 bbtkd, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  11. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    They do.
    Date Lot Coding
    What "big hitters" aren't already date coding? Seems like it is a rare brewer - usually small, new-ish, local and, often, self-distributing (where legal) that doesn't these days.

    Well, they could deny them the use of their "INDEPENDENT CRAFT" seal :grin: (not that that would hurt all that much).
     
    #31 jesskidden, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  12. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Big guys setting the stage seems to be a thing of the past. Nowadays, the tail wags the dog...my SN Hazy Little Thing says so anyways... :grin:
     
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  13. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico

    Maybe some brewers shouldn't be brewers. If you're beer isn't selling, don't sell it to every Tom, Dick, and Jane who want to initially buy 25 cases *at a discount that you offered. And don't continue to make the same amount if its already not selling. Lower capacity. Fix your damn recipes and other brewing quality aspects.

    Look at it from a food perspective. Some well trained chefs just flat out SUCK. Maybe its their method, recipes, ingredients.

    "It's out of our hands once the distributor gets it". BS. You're name is on the line and if your 3 month old IPA thats been on the shelve hot for 90 days tastes like crap, that's on your NAME sake. Make less beer. Or maybe just go out of business. Sad harsh reality.

    Dating beer isn't really a problem that I see. People aren't buying beer because of a lack of date. I feel like 95% of the people at beer stores dont even look at the dates. There is just a nice variety, and all walks of beer life are sitting (dated or non dated)
     
  14. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I mean big guys in the craft industry, and SN is pretty big there. BMC is pretty consistent in dating their beers with Bud bragging about their "born on" date, now a "best before" date. Unfortunately, many craft brewers seem to do the opposite of BMC on some things...
     
  15. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    This ^ From the average consumer's point of view that directly affects the brewer's reputation is the dating on beer. Date the beer or I won't date the beer all the way to the checkout.
     
    #35 utopiajane, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  16. Squire

    Squire Grand Pooh-Bah (4,385) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've had candid conversations with brewers about this issue. In a non confrontational way I gently reminded them a consumer only has to buy one stale old beer to turn them off all beers bearing the Brewery name. I no longer bother, their collective head in the sand attitude makes the talk a waste of my time.
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    And that is a travesty IMO. The craft breweries and their association Brewers Association could learn plenty from AB about beer quality.

    Cheers!
     
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  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Hopefully there is some way the Brewers Association can actively take steps to pull their heads out of the sand. Maintaining this head in the sand approach is not a wise business strategy for the individual breweries and for the craft beer industry overall.

    Cheers!
     
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  19. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Good points all. I just wonder if any Craft brewery would be able to enforce it's pull dates the way AB is able to.
     
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  20. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Craft brewers should also keep in mind that BMC have spent millions on mastering efficiency and consistency, so where this knowledge can be discovered and legally leveraged the craft brewers would be smart to. This happens all the time in other industries, though certainly they must toe the line of legality.
     
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