Controversial Beer Opinions Thread

Lagers, meh.

Code dating implies that you need a decoder. Dates need to be standard and human readable without a secret decoder ring or searching the interwebs for the one person that knows how to interpret it. And although dates are important to IPA drinkers, I - as a dark-ale fan - don't care much about bottle dating and never check them.

Aging can improve some non-brett beers, but it is subjective. Though I like some coffee stouts fresh, other beers where they've added coffee as only one of many add-junks get better when aging has faded the coffee and allowed the other flavors to come forward IMHO. Two examples are Founders CBS and Prairie Pirate Noir, which in my opinion are much better with 6 months age to take the edge off the coffee. But as you say aging doesn't always improve beer.

Drink what you like, but keep your options open and informed by trying all the styles you can.

Your perception is wrong in regards to lagers!

We agree on the independent beer opinion. There are some great bears that didn't turn not-great just by selling out to big-beer. If you are saying you're a fan of BMC macro - I'll pass.

 

No it doesn't. Take for example this explanation of Sierra Nevada's 12 pack Date Code. Easily understandable "packaged on" date, but their "code" includes other info, as well.


Other brewers' code also include items like production line, Tax ID, SKU #, etc.

I'd also say that "day of year" (aka "Julian") dating is pretty standard throughout numerous industries (I've worked for at least 3 non-brewing Fortune 500 companies that routinely used it) - and doesn't take a whole lot of "math" to figure out.

Fresh beer is fresh beer, regardless of the color of the malt and resulting beer or the amount of hops used. I want to buy and drink fresh beer, even one that is a "dark" beer and/or a low IBU one. The thought that only hop flavor/aroma is affected as a beer goes past it's prime due to age or improper storage is an erroneous one.

 

Or, alternatively, you are wrong because 80% of the world's beer drinkers disagree with you.

 

What I was saying regarding "date codes" is that calling it a code implies that some conversion or interpretation is required. Beer dates should not be encoded, they should be obvious like in your example - I would not call that a code since it spells it right out.

What I was saying in regards to low-IBU dark ales taking age better is that since they don't depend as much on hops for flavor, the base beer won't change as much with age as a hoppy beer would, then you are left with the add-junk changing, and the effects of that are subjective.

 

But Sierra Nevada, the rest of the brewing and the beer marketing industries and most consumer do ...

"As much"? - I'd say "differently" - perhaps. But according to the industry standard Dalgliesh graph there are many aspects of beer flavor other than hop flavor/aroma affected by time:

 

Decoding date codes is not a problem for me so long as I can find the published formula. What I do find irritating is print so small or obscurely located or ink color that fades into the label. Sure, I can carry a magnifying glass and key chain flashlight but such hard to read info is deceptive and disrespectful of the customer.

 

I'm not a freshness nerd (very rarely check dates), so all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over codes is somewhat amusing to me. I'd imagine some of the larger breweries are 24 hour a day businesses. A beer packaged at 12:01am would have the same date as one packaged at 11:59pm. Your beer could be a whole day older!

There are other reasons for using codes instead of straight dating: in case of an issue, the brewery can narrow down the amount product subject to a potential recall. Beer might be produced at more than one facility. There may be more than one packaging line. There maybe multiple shifts of employees, working different days. None of these are addressed by simple dating.

 

Perhaps part of the problem is calling them codes, somehow making it OK for some brewers to invent their own code. Packaging date is my vote, which counts for nothing.

Regarding IPAs though, the hops do matter more since that's the prevalent flavor that seems to be the main characteristic that IPA fans expect. When the IPA hop bitterness fades relatively quickly it will be more notable and disappointing than in a dark ale with other flavors often more prevalent than the hops, so that fading hop bitterness is not noticed as much.

Your chart explains a lot regarding my own preferences; I'm not a fan of hop or coffee bitterness, and when the bitterness fades then the sweet flavors come to the forefront. I dig that, particularly in the case of rum, and who wouldn't want a case of rum. Cardboard not so much, but depends on the type of cardboard.

 

I'm not particularly arguing against that (although "hop fade" from excessive time on the shelf is just as disappointing in pilsners, pale ales, dark beers, etc.) - but that's not what you claimed in the post I first quoted and commented on. It was this:

And I said that fresh beer is better and stale beer, regardless of style, is - for me at least - a beer I'll pass on after checking the date code.

 

I like cheap beer, lots of high rated beers on the site ends up tasting like shit to me. I'm first a liquor guy over beer, so maybe thats why. Either way cheap beer does it for me, outside of cheap beer Saporo does it

 

I agree more or less. It does suck, the timing. When I have friends and family that are still displaced and not heard from, but you nailed it, it’s not called “hurricane” Florence and it’s a beer that’s been in rotation and from a very thoughtful and reputable brewery. Just struck that sore nerve and I needed to vent, thanks for your input.

 

Yes, you're right. The ID and credit card requirement is OK. The 4 limit bottle maybe too, but I think they could produce more to reach more people and avoid those limits, although I don't know what style of beer it is.

Anyway, I was thinking in general about current beer culture, as you said. Cheers

 

Whenever I read Tired Hands’ “tasting notes” on their Instagram posts, I want to fucking choke one of those idiots out.

 

only one?

 

Who hurt you?

 

I've wondered about this since I heard it was listed as a style of beer on here. I am only familiar with kvass as a lactofermented beet drink. I wonder if there aren't two different kvasses out there...

 

Yes, there are two, lacto-fermented and yeast-fermented. It’s the yeast that produce alcohol. It’s the latter Kvass listed on here as being “beer-like.” Problem is how much alcohol is needed for it to be counted as “beer.” Some say there’s not enough in Kvass for it to be counted, others say there is.

 

Having had it, I would agree, and so do Russians - according to the owner of the local Russian grocery where I went to buy it. I asked if they had beer and he said no, then I spotted it on a shelf. He said Russians don't consider it a beer due to the extremely low ABV, which is so low it is given to Russian kids, and in the US it is not classified as alcoholic. I thought it tasted like tea, and I drain-poured most of the 2-liter bottle after drinking just enough to review it and check off that style. Apparently some versions of it are fermented slightly, so someone somewhere decided it's beer. Another style we can eliminate, has my vote.