Beer Styles Have Finally Been Updated!

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Sep 1, 2018.

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  1. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,326) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I don't believe that beers containing adjuncts (defined in beer brewing terms as unmalted grains) should lead to them being lumped together in another style separate from the base style. I also don't believe that "add-junks" such as fruit, vegetables, coffee, chocolate, vanilla, peppers, pumpkin specifically, or bourbon/rum/tequila should lead to separate styles either, even though some currently do.
     
    Premo88 likes this.
  2. Sabtos

    Sabtos Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,486) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'm just going to say it since I'm not sure anyone else has, the simple fact is, there are not too many categories. I mean, there just aren't

    We are already ignoring a huge subset of beers from Germany that everyone already recognizes outside of here are their own styles. We're ignoring a huge subset of beers out of America that make no sense to call American Wild because almost no brewery or beer consumer calls any of them that. Yet we have added few niche styles, like New England IPA, and the hyper brand spanking new Brut IPA which I'm not sure is really deserving of a style and may not even stick around for 3 more months.

    American Wild Ale means absolutely nothing to me, signifying a catch-all for anything that could be remotely related to beers that might be sour, funky, yeasty, etc in a largely Belgian vein, but not always, with wildly different results and outcomes across the spectrum and also relative to Belgian beers.
     
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  3. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Well, of you're going to only go by appearance to categorize Toppling Goliath beers, they will have change styles monthly...
     
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  4. TylerJ

    TylerJ Pundit (979) Apr 10, 2016 Iowa
    Trader

    You're not wrong...
     
  5. Sabtos

    Sabtos Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,486) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    To further illustrate the point, Deschutes The Ages is currently a Belgian Gueuze...
     
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  6. Houborg1

    Houborg1 Maven (1,409) Jun 4, 2016 Denmark

    I have to say that I’m a fan of the many styles to choose from!

    A lot of the scandinavian beers is troublesome to add due to it being very experimental.
    I do get the arguments for only having a few to choose from, but it can make it quite a hazzle to make some fit!
     
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  7. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,326) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    You say "categories" but do you mean "styles"? If styles, I'll say it - there are too many styles. Granted, there may be one or two that deserve to be broken out as you note, but others really need to go away; Imperials, Pumpkin, Chili, and Fruit for starters. Just let them be their base style, and let the brewer denote the strength and add-junks on the label.
     
  8. Sabtos

    Sabtos Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,486) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Sorry, shouldn't have been throwing the word category around, although some of the categories and category placements are a little puzzling as well.

    But nah, seriously, the stance of too many styles has been made countless times, and I think it's just the other way around.

    Again, we're missing dozens of styles here that are historically and globally already recognized.

    I think you may be one of the very, very few advocating for getting rid of the Imperial prefix, as ABV really does have a massive effect on the overall beer's characteristics, let alone ingredients. Consolidation might make things look neater to you, but that doesn't serve any purpose other than to muddle completely different experiences together.

    Also, you may not like Pumpkin, Chile, and Fruit beers, but the only one of those I don't think is really it's own style and can agree with removing is Chile, as you really don't come across many beers that are specifically, myopically focused on solely the chile. They usually aren't even brewed with much chilies, but just have a touch of it for added flavoring. There are tons and tons of beers that are brewed with chilies--I think those beers should be classified under their base styles. For instance, why are Huna and Mexican Cake classified as stouts, but Autumnal Mole, Theobroma, and 5 Vulture classified as "Chile Beers." None of the breweries that make those three consider them Chile Beers or are focusing solely on the Chile. Dogfish calls theirs a chocolate beer, Ska a stout with mole as the inspiration, and 5 Vulture might as well be 5 Rabbit's mole ale too, which is closer to a brown or an amber, but definitely not just a "Chile beer," more akin to a herb/spice.

    I've gone over the Pumpkin validity already, but as for Fruit Beer, nothing is more perfectly illustrative of the style than a beautiful New Glarus Rasberry Tart, "Belgian" Red, or Serendipity. Beers like that don't really fit anywhere else, even and especially the Belgian Fruited Lambic category they may have been inspired by.
     
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  9. Ice_Cream_And_IPAs

    Ice_Cream_And_IPAs Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2016 New York

    So just to clarify, should we be adding kettle sours into the American Wild Ale group?
     
  10. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,837) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Likely not - most kettle sours are based on either a Berliner Weisse or a Gose.
     
  11. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Yeah, I've submitted a correction for a Kettle Sour that I had previously entered as an American Wild Ale to be changed to a Berliner Weiße even though it irked me, to be honest. An American Fruited Kettle Sour has little in common with a traditional Berliner Weiße in my opinion, but even less with an American Wild Ale, I guess.

    Then again, I kinda agree with @Sabtos that American Wild Ale is more of a catch-all than an actual style and I'm already having second thoughts about that correction...

    This is why we need styles such as Kettle Sour/American Fruited Sour/Whatever or Indiana Pale Lager, it's really frustrating being forced to enter beers under styles that they just don't really fit into.
     
  12. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    That did not just happen with this change.
     
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  13. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    INDIA Pale Lager, lol...:sweat_smile:

    Never said that. My point is that it didn't get fixed with this change either.
     
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  14. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I'm sure there's some downsides to it, but I honestly don't see many. Bring on multiple styles.

    This would be fine if we weren't rating to style on this site, but unfortunately we are.

    For example, it's unfair to lump New England IPAs in with regular American double IPAs/IPAs/pales.

    The New England IPAs will bury the others in ratings, making it impossible to find out which ones are the "best".
     
  15. seakayak

    seakayak Pooh-Bah (1,757) May 20, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    One great improvement of creating the New England IPA style was that it removed all the NEIPA beers (Trillium, Tree House, etc.) that clogged and obscured the American IPA "Top Rated" list, which had made it virtually useless for finding traditional IPA's.

    However, after repeated edit suggestions for style-changes, many obviously NEIPA-styled beers remain in the American Pale Ale category, apparently because they have "pale ale" in their name (I don't know if this is the only reason; but I've also suggested that guidance be published so we're not left guessing).

    Galaxy Dry Hopped Fort Point Pale Ale (6.6%) and Double Dry Hopped Fort Point Pale Ale (6.6%), plus many others, all have the classic hallmarks of a NEIPA, but the brewer name "Pale Ale" is keeping it in the BA American Pale Ale style, which is again clogging and obscuring the traditional APA's in the style lists.

    The style-contradictions pointed out in this thread show how complex it must have been to roll out a complete overhaul, and I'm certain nobody is more aware of it than the staff. So here's hoping there will be a follow-through with the new styles to make them all more useful than they were before.
     
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  16. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Yup.

    Oh, wow, yeah that's an issue.

    You'd never be able to find out that Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is likely rated favorably compared to beers of a similar style, because DDH Fort Point has incredibly high ratings.

    It's absolutely a New England pale ale.
     
  17. Ice_Cream_And_IPAs

    Ice_Cream_And_IPAs Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2016 New York

    Agreed. Though, Fort Point to me is especially complicating, because it's my go-to example of why beers don't necessarily need to be categorized based on what brewers call them. Like how is it a pale ale at 6.6% ABV and such hop-dominated taste profile? It's a NEIPA, and it should be categorized as such.
     
  18. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Substance from Bissell is also 6.6% ABV and is called an IPA by the brewer. I could see it both ways, but I definitely lean towards your argument that it's really an IPA.

    Even the Brewer's Association's new style guidelines puts a cap on "juicy/hazy pale ales" at 5.4%.
     
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  19. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I think this has been mentioned already, but one downside is that if you have too many styles, then the individual styles become meaningless. And you could also have too few examples in a style to make it worthwhile.
     
  20. joerooster

    joerooster Initiate (0) May 15, 2018 Virginia

    I guess one could argue either way but the way it's set up now, it's not consistent. I have a hard time classifying the following beer as an AIPA.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/42560/333518/


    .
     
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