Toppling Goliath Releases and Updates

I didn’t quote you, nor did I respond to your particular post as I didn’t take issue with anything you said.

Having said that, let me clarify. It is not my intention to claim that secondary doesn’t contribute to actual demand, obviously it does. My point is most of the folks here taking issue realize the fact that this will sell out immediately is not indicative of the quality of this beer being worth $100 to those who would like to, or even have, consumed it.

I don’t know how you came to the conclusion I thinkTG is powerless to control price... I’ve been pretty far on the other side of this argument throughout... TG has started a positive feedback loop with their beers driving up secondary, which in turn allows them to gouge at release. Repeat the cycle over and over and we arrive here.

Anyone with any sort of experience with TG knows that these hyped releases and “uber-rarity”, regardless of it is real or manufactured, is where they truly make their whale money.

 

Lol, yea that’s a total mess up by me. Sorry! I thought you were the OP I replied to replying to me. Reading your comments through that lens shaded them one way when it’s clear now you meant them another way.

I deleted my post as it just makes things confusing. I agree with everything you’re saying.

 

No problem, figured that was the case as we are sitting on pretty much the same side of the fence. United in wallowing.

 

But muh butt is hurt!

 

I agree with this, but I'd also say the complaining about what TG is charging is a little tired as well.

Just because it's not the person who purchased it at the brewery in Decorah Iowa isn't the final consumer doesn't mean the Econ 101 argument is wrong. His statement is 100% accurate, but it's not looking at the full picture.

Value in secondary is driven by the demand for the beer, not the other way around. In this case - you are 100% incorrect. Again, the point is there are other factors, i.e., just because TG can charge $100 doesn't mean they should.

This reads as if you think the last purchaser is leaving it on their mantle to decorate the house with on the holidays. Ultimately someone will drink it. It's a bit ridiculous for some of you guys to say the Econ 101 argument is tired, then show that you don't understand Econ 101.

 

If I was TG I'd charge $500 per bottle. And you'd still probably get plenty of "whalez broz" lining up to buy it.

Meanwhile I'm just gonna sit at home and drink one of the other beers I bought at the store on the way home from work.

 

Where did the 4 barrels come from? If there are 1000 bottles at 12 oz each, that’s 12000 oz of KBBS, or 93.75 gallons. A bourbon barrel holds about 53 gallons, so with 4 of them there would be 212 gallons of beer. Even with a terrible yield, overfill, employee bottles and saving some for future cellar sales and potentially kegging, 4 barrels seems high. Unless they made 4, took the 2 or 3 that tasted best and got rid of the rest.

And, following the math theme, 1000 bottles will sell for $100,000, plus what will be spent on other bottles and cans at the brewery. A normal run of King Sue, let’s say they make a 100 barrel batch, so 3100 gallons (because a beer barrel is 31 gallons). If a 4 pack is 64 oz that is 6200 4 packs at $16-19 each, we’ll go $17.50 to hit the middle. That sells for $108,000. They don’t make all of that with distributors and wholesale prices, but the point is they make way more money on the everyday beers, and the super rare $100 stouts are to build hype. Why not play into it and keep making big $ on the everyday IPAs.

 

Perhaps you missed this post.

 

If you don't believe that demand for this beer has increased based on secondary, then we fundamentally disagree. The inverse is obviously true, but to say that the pool of people seeking this beer hasn't risen because of the astronomical secondary market irrespective of beer itself is, in my opinion, a reach and a half. There are folks out there that are all too excited to own something they could theoretically sell for $1000 whether they ultimately plan to or or not.

I have yet to see a person contesting the simple economics here. All I see is a continuum of opinions differing in how "predatory" a pricing philosophy is perceived to be. Ironically in all this, TG itself loves to crusade against secondary, and even trading at times. They love to speak out against the practice, while shamelessly capitalizing on it.

 

They are still selling this beer at 1/10th of its established market value, people aren't truly letting that sink in.

It seems that there are roughly two schools of thought in this thread right now (1) this beer is expensive but still priced below the true value so I accept it and (2) this beer is expensive and because of that I now hate TG.

I wish it was cheaper and maybe this brouhaha will hurt their brand but if you owned a company selling widgets that had a market value of $1k, what would you sell the widgets for?

 

The same people who are bitching about the price of KBBS apparently have nothing to say about any number of other beers that are overpriced compared to the cost it takes to produce them. I mean, The Answer just runs some beer through some fruit and sells it at $20/crowler, where are the pitchforks, amirite?

The fact is that it is easy to hate on TG, but those people who are worried about the impact this beer and the price it is selling for has on the craft beer world have apparently been living under a rock for the past few years.

Craft beer can now be a business for people who don't give a crap about craft beer. The days of trading rare beers $4$ with likeminded folks is pretty much over. Just about everyone wants #whalz to sell or win a trade or whatever. The genie is out of the bottle, the toothpaste is out of the tube, etc. Saying something like "Craft beer should be like it was in the old days, when five people showed up to a release and then traded that rare beer to someone for local stuff" is hopelessly delusional at best.

Any brewery should be able to sell any bottle of anything they make for as much or as little as they please and sell as many or as few as they please for any reason they please. Of course people can bitch and moan about it, or threaten to boycott the brewery, or talk about about the brewery or beer—and of course, they have a right to—but it won't change a thing.

It is what it is, C'est la vie and all that.

 

I disagree that $1K is the market value for this beer. It's the market value for the small number of bottles that do end up getting sold, but I doubt TG would sell out their supply if they retailed them at $1K.

 

There's a huge difference between selling a 12oz bottle for $100 and a 22oz bottle for like $30-40.

 

Fucking noob. Don't you realize KBBS stands for Kentucky Bourbon Blockchain Stout?

 

Anyone know when Sosus cans are expected to happen?

 

I might be concerned regarding the 99% of my clients that give me a funny look charging $1K for a product that cost $20 to make. The check from the 1% that don't care would help, but I would definitely consider my perception in the market as a function of my ability to thrive as a business.

 

I think we've pretty much exhausted the topic, or at least I have. Long story short, it sucks in a lot of ways that a $100 12 ounce is where we've gotten. Part of this is on TG, and some of it is on the pastrybois dropping g notes on a single beer. TG could've taken the high, or even medium road that a lot of other whale factories have, but they are obviously under no obligation to do so.

TG gonna TG, love them and hate them. I'll stop flooding the forum now!

 

I'm not going to deny there's a bit of a hype circle going on, but I think you're looking at "demand" as the amount of people wanting to buy it from TG and I'm looking at demand from the last person to purchase the beer - whether it be from TG or in secondary.

Sort of agree, though I'd say it's more like 0.1% of clients write the large check for the rare item, 2 or 3% of their clients are pissed at how much they're charging and 97% don't even know about it when they scoop up a PseudoSue or a Dorothy.

 

The Ford GT didn't hurt their business, same for the Nissan GTR. Think of KBBS as a halo car.

 

Correct, if supply was increased price would decrease but I think you are missing the point.