PASTE - Endangered Beer Styles: American Stout

And let’s not forget that there is really no difference between regular, lower abv stouts and porters. It just boils down to the brewery’s choice of style.

 

At least it wasn't just another completely misguided list of the "BEST" of whatever.

 

I don't know. Sierra Nevada's Porter and Stout are pretty different.

 

Those are totally different beers! I think what @DISKORD was referring to was the choice of style attributed to each beer.

 

I should also mention that when I purchased this, I was looking for a low ABV stout for the cooler weather.

I love Sam Adams Cream Stout, but it was also one of my only options. It was either that or Guinness (I purchased some Guinness too at some point).

 

...meanwhile a sixer of Deschutes Obsidian Stout waits in my fridge, NOT CARING.

 

"TIPPING IS FOR THE WEAK" - That asshole from the tipping thread

 

Yes, for sure, but whether a brewery labels a beer Porter or Stout is primarily arbitrary and based largely upon marketing projections or individual brewer/brewery preferences. One man’s Stout is another man’s Porter, and vice versa.

 

Firstly, I agree with you 100% here.

There has been some discussion in past threads that what distinguishes a Stout from a Porter is that a Stout is brewed using Roasted Barley while a Porter would contain no Roasted Barley. It just so happens that this ‘concept’ is consistent with how Sierra Nevada brews their two beers of Stout vs. Porter – they use Roasted Barley in brewing Sierra Nevada Stout but no Roasted Barley is used in brewing Sierra Nevada Porter. Is this the case since Sierra Nevada followed ‘convention’ when they formulated the recipe of these two beers? Or was Sierra Nevada a progenitor of this ‘concept’? A chicken or the egg question?

To circle back to what I posted in the first sentence: in today’s craft beer scene breweries will select whether to label their dark beer as a Porter or Stout based upon their whims.

Cheers!

@SierraTerence

 

For whatever it's worth, Jack, if SN Stout uses roasted barley now, it's a relatively recent change. It was originally just black patent malt, and the "roasted barley people" would use that fact to argue that it was really a porter.

 

Michael, what is your definition of "relatively recent"?

Cheers!

@SierraTerence

 

This is the first I've heard of it, but it's not like I follow these things that closely. Last few years, maybe.

The recipe I used in the early 90s was based on Sierra Nevada's own spec, no roasted barley.

 

Maybe Terence (@SierraTerence) can educate us on when they made a change to the recipe and hopefully the rationale for the change as well.

Cheers!

 

So “they” would argue that there was a SN Porter, and a SN Porter.

 

A win-win!?!

Cheers!

 

Sort of . I don't think it was ever phrased that way, but you'd usually hear stuff like "I think that's really a porter, no matter what they call it." Or if I was thinking of entering my version in a competition I'd be advised to enter it as a Robust Porter.

Nowadays there's a category for West Coast Stouts, like SN or Obsidian Stout, but back then it didn't exist.

My own way of differentiating between the two styles isn't by ingredients or gravity, but rather the dominance of roast malt/grain flavor. Usually about 4 to 5% of the grist for a porter, double that for a stout. If you compare the two beers, it would seem that SN takes the same approach.

 

Original Stout was just Pale 2-row and Roasted Barley. The recipe went through numerous changes throughout the years. When I started here in 1994 it was Pale, roast barley, chocolate, black, caramel and dextrin. Early changes was made to increase the complexity and to more away from the harsh, burnt and astringent qualities you can find from roasted barley... Round the flavors so to say. I remember it wasn't until the late 90's or early 2000's that we started playing with dehusked Carafa III. Today's recipe is now Pale, Caramel, Carafa III, Munich, CaraPils, Chocolate, Roast Barley and Black malt.

If you get a chance, we do make the original recipe that we serve on occasion in our tap rooms called '79 Stout. It was originally done as the first brew in Mills River NC and based off Ken's first Stout recipe. Currently on tap in Chico.

It's called '79 Stout (10 bbl): 600# Pale, 60# Roast Barley - bitter hops vary but it late hopped with Chinook and Cascade. I believe the original recipe did have Cluster in there somewhere.

 

Thanks for posting back, Terence. I'd love to try that '79 Stout some day!

Here's my old "cheat sheet" that's definitely pre-1994, although I couldn't pin down the exact date-

The old-school Xerox and time hasn't been too good to it, but under the heading of malts it says: Two Row Barley Malt, Caramel Malt, Black Malt, Dextrine Malt.

Naturally the brewery could have been working with a different recipe, and this shouldn't be taken as gospel or anything. I just thought you'd appreciate seeing a little bit of the past, and how the homebrewers of the time would use SN's materials for the basis of putting together our own recipes. These kind of things were copied and handed around regularly, and I personally found it to be a big help. Cheers!

 

Tongo,

Wow, those old beer descriptors... Too funny. Gives me an idea. We have a binder in the restaurant of all these old sheets. I should try and scan those and post them somewhere.

I was racking my brain on the roast barley or not when I started and I think we would bounce back and forth but I do remember not adding roasted barley at times.

Cheers,
Terence

 

Terence, I have no photographs to provide to you but my memory was that 'back in the day' there was indeed Roasted Barley used to brew Sierra Nevada Stout.

Thanks for your input here. It was indeed a desired 'sanity check' on my part.

Cheers!

Jack