Sticke Warriors

Discussion in 'Germany' started by spartan1979, Nov 1, 2018.

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  1. biermark

    biermark Zealot (519) Sep 9, 2008 South Carolina

     
  2. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    Antwerp October 18-21

    We took the D Bahn bus again from Düsseldorf to Antwerp. We checked into the hotel and headed over to Kulminator.

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    We started out with a round of vintage drafts but soon it was time for a flight of Westvleteren XII.

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    We had 2004, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2018 plus a 2013 St. Bernardus Abt 12. The 2004 was pretty good, but other vintages were past their prime. The 2018 was pretty good. We also did a blind tasting of 6 tripels. We only identified one of the 6!

    The next morning started out a little rough as we were awoken to this outside our hotel:

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    They had a before school concert for the scouts with sound checks beginning at 6:30 in front of the central station. It was very loud!

    Later that morning four of us boarded a train and headed to Ghent for the day. We started out at Het Waterhuis aan de Bierkant.

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    I started out with a De Bolleke (De Koninck APA), but thinking about it later, I probably should have saved that for Antwerp. From there stopped at Aba-Jour. Their Saison Dupont on tap was in great shape. Duvel accompanied lunch.

    We ended up our day trip at Herberg De Dulle Griet, a cool old bar on the main square.

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    When we got back to Antwerp we met up with the rest of the group at Kulminator for some more vintage beers. The highlight of the night was a sampling of three Imperial Stouts, Black Albert Batch 0, Caulier 28, and Emelisse Imperial Stout.

    Saturday began with a walk through an amazing Farmers Market then lunch at De Pelgrim, the tap room for De Koninck.

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    From there we went and found Speciale Belge Taproom, a new modern bar with some interesting taps. It was a little hard to find as it's buried in an old industrial complex. They said additional signage is on order.

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    Then it was back to, you guessed it, Kulminator! This group has a special connection to Kulminator as they have been coming here for 20 years. They no longer allow groups, but an exception was made for us. We spend so much time here because you never know when it will be the last time. The owners are getting older and the place is becoming cluttered, like they can't keep up anymore. Only time will tell...

    After walking back to the hotel, a few of us headed to a nearby bar, Beerlovers Bar. A young clientele, 20 taps and few vintage beers on their beer list. It's worth a visit.

    Sunday started out at Antwerp's second largest brewery, Brouwerijcafe De Seefhoek. It's surprising that a city the size of Antwerp, in a beercentric country like Belgium, only has two breweries!

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    The beers were decent, and the food is pretty good. They have a nice courtyard that they use as a biergarten in the summer. It's worth a visit but there are more interesting places to spend your time.

    Such as our next stop, De Ware Jacob.

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    They had Avec Les Bons Voeux from Brasserie Dupont. Very good.

    We had a quick one at Den Billekletser, followed by dinner and more beer at Billie's Bier Kafeteria. (Kulminator was closed :slight_smile:). The final beer in Antwerp was Alvinnter is Coming, a Barleywine by Brouwerij Alvinne.

    My only other visit to Antwerp was an evening in 2010 that was spent at Kulminator. There's a lot more here than that and a lot of places that I didn't even get to. I'll have to get back some day.
     
  3. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    It's a decent size city without a ton of tourists and most of the ones that are there disappear at night. It's very quaint with interesting views everywhere. We like to bike and hike and there's plenty of opportunities to do those things in the surrounding countryside and hitting several breweries along the way. I just feel comfortable there.
     
  4. Jason_in_Bamberg

    Jason_in_Bamberg Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2018 Germany

    Haha, without a ton of tourists haha... interesting observation :slight_smile: The cruise ships are the worst as no-one spends any money in the city they just clog up the highways and stand outside Schlenkerla gawping. Mind you the bus loads aren't much better - but you're right, outside of summer they do melt away in the evening.

    The best time for Bamberg residents is Jan-Mar. It's really a huge difference as the students also leave February-April so it can almost be described as a 'ghost city'. Quite eerie at times walking through the Sandstrasse on a cold misty winter's evening and not a soul around. It's quite blissful, but then just as it gets boring the spring comes and with it the crowds begin to return.

    Regarding the Westvleteren tasting, I've always maintained the Sint Bernardus beers are of much better quality. This is of course an opinion, but what I'm certain of is the hype around Westvleteren has made it far more over rated than it should be to the point of ridiculousness.
     
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  5. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    The tourists seem to be congregated around Schlenkerla and the Altes Rathaus. Other than that, I don't see the groups all that much. I'll have to try Bamberg some time in March, but that will have to wait for retirement, my wife can't go at that time of year currently.

    When I say "without a ton of tourists," I'm comparing it to places like Prague.

    I'm sure rarity has some effect on Westvleteren, but it still is a very good beer. The first time I had a XII it was very good. Based on our limited sample, recent versions don't seem to age as well. I'll have to drink the 2017 I brought home from Belgium last year.
     
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  6. FrankenBier

    FrankenBier Zealot (645) Feb 4, 2003 California

    There was a change made in 2005 -- beers before then age well (the 2004 in our tasting was quite nice) but ones after that seem to be good for maybe 4 years max. I didn't think the 2013 St Bernardus held up well either.

    The thoughts on W12 used to be similar to beers like Thomas Hardy -- need to age a few years before drinking. Before it died TH also changed to be more immediately drinkable. There are other examples in the back of my mind I can't dredge out right now but I don't think this is an accident but due to different expectations of new customers. As an Old Fart™ I get to say "The kids these days..." :slight_smile:
     
  7. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    Let's wrap this up.

    October 22 - Amsterdam

    I elected to only stay one night in Amsterdam and fly home in the morning. I was ready to go home by then so it was a good decision. I think others were starting to feel the same way.

    We took the train from Antwerp, stopped at the hotel and dropped off our bags.

    We headed to to Bierproeflokaal In De Wildeman, a nice old bar with a decent tap list.

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    They had a lot of old signs on the wall and other breweriana on display.

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    I had a Siphon Brewing Zwaluw (a rye beer), a Weihenstephaner Festbier and an Amstel Bock. All were decent. I also had a smoked sausage that had the texture of raw meat.

    From there we headed Proeflokaal Arendsnest, a newish bar with 50 Dutch beers on tap.

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    (Photo courtesy of Fred Waltman)

    I'd recommend this place if you're ever in Amsterdam.

    I started out with Gulpener Herftsbock. A tasty bock. While I was drinking it I noticed this sign:

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    A couple of guys bought a bunch of de Molen biers (10?) I managed two more bocks, De Prael Herftsbok and Oedipus Madeline. The Gulpener was my favorite of the three. I also had an Oldskool Imperiøl Øldskeul, a winter ale. Very enjoyable.

    Four of us did head over to the train station to check out the Delirium Tremens bar, but after stopping for a bite to eat, we decided to skip it (as I mentioned, I think everyone was getting a little burned out).

    So the next day I headed home. And thus ends my adventure.

    I want to thank Fred Waltman (@FrankenBier ) for making this trip available to me and for making all the arrangements. I got to knock a few things off my beer bucket list and drank a lot of good beer! I had a great time and hope to go again some time in the future (2019 is out for me as we're going to Oktoberfest!) I got to knock a few things off my beer bucket lists and drank a lot of good beer!

    Fred, feel free to add a post about the couple of days after I left. I saw your Twitter posts and it looks like you went to some good places.
     
  8. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    How do you choose your beer?! Pick a number from 1-50 or close your eyes and point? :wink:

    I enjoyed your posts. Thanks for the entertainment.
     
  9. Ostpies

    Ostpies Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2015 New Zealand (Aotearoa)

    Just wanted to say thanks for sharing all the photos and details of your trip. Given me lots of ideas for my Belgium/Germany trip next year.

    cheers!
     
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  10. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Damn...

    When I went to Belgium in 2011 I picked up a bottle of Westvleteren 12 and brought it home.

    I did some research on the forums about the ideal time to age it. I remember three years being the sweet spot. I can’t remember if I had it after 2 or 3 years, but it was very good.

    I agree with the sentiments above though. St. Bernardus 12 has always tasted best to me.

    Although Westvleteren 8 remains my favorite Dubbel.

    Speaking of Thomas Hardy, there’s been some various types of TH’s dropped locally lately.

    And also related to this thread, anyone else had any of this canned by B. United yet? Was decent.

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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    How much was that beer? Was it worth the price in your opinion?

    Cheers!
     
  12. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Pricey.

    $18.29 for a 4 pack of 12 oz. cans. Dated 10/31 though, so that's nice.

    I've had two so far, and I thought it was good. I'm saving the last two for a more critical drinking session, but I don't think I'd buy them again, at that price or lower.

    Well, maybe lower, simply because I don't see this style on the shelves often.

    Also bear in mind I'm not super familiar with this style either. I have had imported Altbiers on tap here that were outstanding. I would not classify this beer as outstanding.

    To be honest, none of the B. United stuff I've had has been oustanding. So far I've had Schlenkerla's Helles, Tipo Pils, St. Georgenbrau Kellerbier, and the Uerige Sticke.

    I would say the best one was the St. Georgenbrau, but even that I didn't purchase again. I really like what B. United is doing here, but so far they've been a bit disappointing for me personally, price aside.

    I'd be curious what Jerry would think of these cans since he just drank a lot of it in the Mother Land. @spartan1979
     
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  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have had three of the B. United canned beers so far.

    I thought the canned Schlenkerla Helles was notably smokier than the bottled/draft version of this beer. I discussed the canned beer in a New Beer Sunday thread:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-sunday-week-680.562032/#post-5907682

    I enjoyed drinking St. GeorgenBräu Kellerbier and I discussed it in a NBS thread:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-sunday-week-713.591876/#post-6227320

    The third was TipoPils which I thought was excellent. I discussed this beer in a NBS thread:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-sunday-week-707.587481/#post-6168846

    While I thought the TipoPils was excellent I have that opinion of a number of other locally brewed German Pilsner style beers and since it cost me over 22 bucks to purchase a 4-pack of 12 ounce canned beer I really can’t rationalize buying TipoPils again.

    The prices that B. United is charging for these beers is just too high for me. Hopefully others are buying these canned beers?

    Cheers!
     
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  14. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hopefully not, as these prices are outrageous and should be boycotted. A 16oz bottle of those German beers is like 1€ in Germany. What a rip-off. Yes, I know that importing raises the cost, but that still doesn't justify an 800% mark-up. You can get standard releases of Cantillon cheaper than that in the USA, relatively speaking. Mind-boggling.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Needless to say but you will not get an argument from me.
    I appreciate your sentiments here but a "boycott" would mean that B. United would stop importing these beers. Is that truly in the best interests of American consumers that desire to drink European brewed beers that are not able to travel to Europe (e.g., they do not have the thousands of dollars it takes to travel with a family of four, do not have a lot of vacation time, etc.)?
    Somebody is making a lot of money here (e.g., "800% mark-up"). My suspicion is that the importer is getting the majority of the profits here but in a multi-tier distribution system it is not always easy to 'follow the bouncing ball'.

    Cheers!
     
  16. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    Unfortunately we don't see any of the B. United cans here in St. Louis. The Sticke we see here are the 333 cl bottles that are usually a year old. I did bring two bottles of Sticke I bought at the brewery on Sticke day but they've already been consumed.
     
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  17. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is getting quite off-topic, so all I will say is that, in my opinion, such outrageously greedy pricing structures should not be encouraged. Instead of stopping to import these beers, they might also simply lower their prices. After all it's not like a 400% mark-up wouldn't still be quite a healthy profit.
     
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  18. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    I think they are able to get these prices since this is a fairly unique practice among US importers canning German beers from the tank. Here's hoping some other importers jump on the wagon for force the price down.
     
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  19. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't know of another US importer that does this. Do you?
     
  20. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    As far as I know it's just B. United. I haven't seen the St. Georgen beers or the Schlenkerla Krausen either.
     
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