Does Minnesota drink beer the right way?

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by islay, Jan 16, 2019.

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  1. gudbrande

    gudbrande Pundit (962) Jul 10, 2009 Minnesota
    Society Trader

    The article itself is a typical rant by CP trying to stir the pot. They are often successful with that approach. The topic is with discussing, the article is not.
    I've found some variation in Keller Pils, albeit small (I've enjoyed quite a few of them since they went year-round). One batch was significantly over carbonated, so even Summit isn't immune to batch variability.
    I'm impressed and pleased by the increase in local and regional beers on the shelves today compared to 10 years ago. When I moved in 2009 the two shops I found closest to me had about 80% macro and imports of unknown age that I was mostly disinterested in. Today it's close to 80% local and regional beers, and that seems to be reflected in a surprising number of other shops. We're living in the midst of a real deal beer revolution, and it's not limited to hazy IPAs and pastry stouts. The rising tide has floated all boats, and there's plenty of variety from local breweries out there to enjoy.
     
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  2. MNBeerGeek

    MNBeerGeek Initiate (0) Jun 25, 2013 Minnesota

    Eh. I buy a decent amount of summit, but this gives off an out-of-touch, old-man-yells-at-cloud vibe. Shaking his fists at the younger generation. The fact is, summit has been outpaced in most ways by the younger folks he’s trying to denigrate (aside from Keller pils). Adapt or get out of the way. And I’m saying that as someone that doesn’t care for a lot of the newer styles of sweet, adjunct laden beer.
     
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  3. Grave252

    Grave252 Initiate (0) Mar 12, 2017 Minnesota
    Trader

    One other note that I find of interest, to my knowledge Summit has well over 200 shareholders with no one holding more than 15%. Obviously that leaves a lot of people with very small stakes, but makes me wonder if it ever results in a "too many cooks in the kitchen" type situation where the direction of the brewery is up for debate. Certainly it's a fine line between innovating, chasing trends, and standing pat, but will be interesting to see how things shake out in the next 5 years.
     
  4. bsp77

    bsp77 Pooh-Bah (2,185) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I am so happy that Summit does not follow trends and disagree with people who think they need to innovate to keep up. Releasing something like the 120 Schilling feels novel in the current MN culture, but it is still traditionalist. There is room for both traditionalists and innovators.

    However, Mark should keep his mouth shut, as he sounds cranky. He should talk about why Summit is different (execution, tradition, variety of styles) without degrading others.
     
  5. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Given the City Pages style, I suspect two things:

    1. Stutrud's quotes are technically accurate, and
    2. The context has been intentionally lost to create controversy
     
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  6. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    Through 2005,* Summit, which opened in 1986, had produced a very small number of beers:

    Alt Bier
    Amber
    EPA
    Grand (Pilsener)
    Great Northern Porter
    Hefe Weizen
    IPA (True Brit)
    Maibock
    Oatmeal Stout
    Oktoberfest
    Winter Ale

    ... and a handful of others that were out of production by the 21st century.

    All were straightforward style exercises in the British or German tradition, and only the Oatmeal Stout (debuted in 2004) was particularly critically lauded; most received middling reviews. I bring that up because, for most of its existence, Summit was notable for lack of variety. I have a controversial theory that part of the reason that the Twin Cities area punched below its weight in terms of craft beer culture for many years is that its only distributing craft brewery was so staid that many local consumers failed to get exposure to the variety or extremes of beer that many other craft breweries were producing in other parts of the country. I suspect Summit could've built a more dominant position in this market if it had given consumers more options and pushed style boundaries (which is not the same as indulging fads), perhaps obviating the need for Surly's existence and delaying the onslaught of competition by years.

    Summit has done good work in recent years to expand and improve upon its formerly limited and boring lineup. It also has employed clever marketing efforts to shift its perception among Minnesota craft beer enthusiasts from perpetual underachiever to respected local elder.

    * I picked the 2005 cutoff point because Surly, Summit's first real packaging competition in the Twin Cities area in a long time, debuted in 2006.

    I don't trust City Pages, but Stutrud definitely is stridently judgmental when it comes to contemporary craft beer. I doubt the article is leaving people with a particularly skewed perception of his views. Again, I'll direct people to local podcast interviews to hear it from the horse's mouth.

    That doesn't mean he's wrong, however. Also, some of the pushback he's receiving (not from @MNAle, to be clear) smacks of ageism, dismissing his ideas in part because he's relatively old. I don't agree with him on everything, and I'm sure his perspective is disproportionately likely to be held by a grizzled industry veteran and somebody who feels no social pressure or advantage to engage in the perceived cutting edge of contemporary popular culture, but that doesn't mean that his perspective automatically holds less value than that of the typically younger people with whom he may be at odds.
     
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  7. bsp77

    bsp77 Pooh-Bah (2,185) Apr 27, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    But I feel most regional stronghold craft brewers had fairly limited portfolios prior to 2005. The problem with the MN market until recently was lack of competition.
     
  8. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Thanks! I can shake my fist at clouds on my lawn with the best of them! :grin:
     
  9. Hookstrat

    Hookstrat Zealot (728) Jan 15, 2006 Iowa
    Trader

    I hope you never get trapped wind, you might level a city block.

    Edit: Go ahead and waste your time litigating beer opinions--I try my best not to get drawn in to that bullshit anymore. But you're being such a hypocrite! Fucking ageism? My dude, half your schtick is gaslighting young beer drinkers!
     
    #29 Hookstrat, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  10. KarlHungus

    KarlHungus Grand Pooh-Bah (3,315) Feb 19, 2005 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    The average Beer Advocate's misunderstanding of the definition of the word 'innovate' is sad to put it nicely.
     
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  11. DNW620

    DNW620 Aspirant (229) Jan 23, 2014 Minnesota

    Are you trying to tell me more hops and more adjuncts isn’t innovative??!!
     
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  12. Chaz

    Chaz Grand Pooh-Bah (3,668) Feb 3, 2002 Minnesota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I’m just now catching up to the comments, but methinks that true innovation may also require stuffing a capped and waxed, twelve ounce longneck down the gizzard of a taxidermied stoat.

    By this standard, Summit has failed miserably.
     
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  13. MNBeerGeek

    MNBeerGeek Initiate (0) Jun 25, 2013 Minnesota

    It also seems that some of the BA old guard is not fully clear on the definition of innovation, either.
     
  14. Nuts4Barrel-aged

    Nuts4Barrel-aged Crusader (428) Dec 14, 2016 Minnesota
    Trader

    After taking another look at the article I am not really sure what its purpose is. Is it to make people feel bad for drinking pastry stouts and NEIPAs or for waiting in line for new beers? If people are interested in something, telling them they are dumb or wrong for doing it doesn’t seem like an effective strategy to get them to chug well executed lagers.
     
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  15. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'd argue the purpose is, as others have mentioned, to stir the pot. The clickbait headline & feeble attempt to pit "old vs. new" brewers is transparent.

    And exceedingly lazy. The central question the article poses is an interesting one that could have spawned a very interesting article. Instead, the character writing this takes the cheap way out. City Pages has never been known for its consistently hard-hitting journalistic chops, but this is feeble even by their standards.
     
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  16. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

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  17. gatornation

    gatornation Grand High Pooh-Bah (10,388) Apr 18, 2007 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I like your synopsis especially with City Pages. While i do agree with some of Mark Studrud points on classics. Beer like football has changed to meet new demographics taste and likes of the next generation of drinkers. Classic's (beer) will always be venerable but for this decade the game has changed.
     
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  18. KiddVideo

    KiddVideo Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2015 Minnesota

    Good breweries who brew the sugary beers you mentioned will likely figure out how to make traditional ales and lagers. They are making beer it's not like it's a big secret out there.
     
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  19. mjryan

    mjryan Pooh-Bah (1,571) Dec 22, 2007 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    What breweries make sugary beer in your opinion? What styles are they producing that you find sugary? What exactly do you mean by sugary anyway?
     
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  20. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Is the answer one post above, where this part of @islay's post was quoted?
     
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