Brewer’s Style Intent vs. Perceived Style

@grantcty just pointed me to the full-on discussion of Schell's Pilsner-flip. I still think, based on the brewery's history with their Pils, we haven't seen the last of that beer.

 

Well, yes, I do think most New England IPAs taste similar. But I would say they don't compare to any other style that I've personally had.

If I had it blind I'm confident I could pick it out of a crowd of other styles of IPAs (English, West Coast...etc.).

I'd be curious to see what you would think of something from Trillium (or any other New England IPA available to me locally). None of those remind me of a standard American Pale Ale.

For example, I had Nugget Nectar, an imperial IPA in my eyes (yes it's labeled as an Amber/Red ale, but it's a West Coast IPA in my book) this past weekend, and also Flume from Battery Steele, a double New England IPA. The latter being a new, but well known, local Maine brewery.

I would never confuse the two at all, they're completely different flavor profiles. But, at the end of the day, I also see the point in asking if there has actually been a new style defined, if they're both technically IPAs? I could go either way on it.

 

Yeah, it's not like I've had all of the NEIPAs available, but I just seem to lump IPA (of any ilk other than English) and APA into a similar vein because of hop character -- you know - thinking on it, other than Celebration, that is.

Heh -- isn't that just circling back to the question of how a brewery is categorizing its beer?

You previously mentioned "trusting" Sierra Nevada and their beer styles prowess... all I could think of was Nooner Pilsner. Really? Pilsner?

 

I hear ya, although I find English IPAs to have much more in common with American IPAs than New England IPAs do with either. Celebration, while also an outlier to my palate as well, is still a West Coast IPA in my book.

Ha, just trying to keep this discussion relevant I suppose.

Yeah, also a good point. I also find their Summerfest more German than Czech too, yet it's labeled a Czech Pilsner.

 

For what it's worth, my answer to this question from the first time I had a NE IPA would be "yes". I understand there are similarities to some hoppy beers, but that's true across the spectrum on other styles too.

 

Exactly my point. Innovative is one thing, "new" is quite another.

 

Hear, hear!

 

Don't disagree, but let me put it this way. Let's say Pliny the Elder is the far left and Haze is the far right (I'm just picking two somewhat protypical versions - I realize there are probably more extreme versions of both and I wish Pliny was a single IPA so I could do that and Julius).

You could find a beer a little bit right of PtE and another a little to the left of Haze. And then you could find a beer a little inside both of those two. And eventually you'd get somewhere in the middle (from a Chicago guy - it might be a Half Acre IPA/DIPA).

So yes, there's a lot of beers along that spectrum, and you could theoretically connect those two extremes. But if you don't draw a line, those beers are in the same category. And at the end of the day, I don't think they should be.

 

I think for the "in the middle" beer you'd want something like Heady Topper. That kind of started the whole shift towards the New England IPA style.

 

I guess (in this case anyway) I'm on the side that doesn't want to start dividing up styles to the point that we're creating a new one based on the smallest of detail(s). IIPA is already recognized as separate from IPA -- and now, I guess, so is NEIPA -- shouldn't that prompt West Coast to be a separate style too?

I guess I like the way BJCP has reorganized their styles with IPA being a category that holds AIPA and 6 "Specialty" IPAs (Belgian, Black, Brown {really?}, Red, Rye, and White) calling them derivatives.

One thing this thread has sparked with me is a renewed interest in trying some of these newer IPAs just for my own research and recognition. I'm not a big hophead, but I enjoy hoppy beer (bittering or flavor) now and again. In fact, taking January off beer seems to have reignited that hop craving a little bit. I'll have to look into some untried IPAs.

 

I dunno, West Coast IPA is really just "American IPA" in my opinion. Or more specifically, a modern American IPA.

Whereas New England IPA is completely different in look, mouthfeel, the way it's brewed, recipes (different hop profiles and yeasts used), IBUs (bitterness), and even flavor from any other type of IPA.

It's to the point where the only thing in common is using a large amount of hops to brew each style of IPA, and perhaps the fact that they both do have bitterness and share some similar flavors.

But at that point I think it would be like saying a brown ale and a stout are the same style. Because both are malt forward and MAY share similar flavors.

Definitely try more New England IPAs though, if even just to get a better idea of what goes into the style. I warn you, you may quickly burn out on them though.

 

I once had a beer that was supposed to be a Bock with coffee added, I won't call out but I did rate it, you can probably find it if you dig into my scores.

Anyways, it smelled like straight doo doo. You just don't encounter things in real life that smell like poop, that aren't actually poop. You smell poop when you're out for a walk- pretty much guaranteed you stepped in dog poop. It's not a pleasing smell to the human palate.

It was the worst beer I've had since I started rating. I seriously couldn't believe anyone who made it or worked there had tasted it and say "this should be sold." The worst part is (worse than a beer that smelled like poop? Surprisingly, yes!), I got it at in the make your own 6pk area at Wegmans. How many poor guys (or gals) got stuck with this doodoo beer when they (or their partner) thought they were putting together a nice 6pk? Thankfully my review is one of the last, so it sounds like they have abandoned this brew, hopefully for good.

 

I don't know if there's any other beer out there that literally tastes like shit.

Sounds like they succeeded in creating a truly brand new style!

 

Still on their web site...

Like the reviews stating a beer taste like "cat piss" or a "sweaty horse blanket", I'll leave determining that to more *ahem* refined palates!

 

The term 'German barleywine' makes my head hurt....

 

Haha, I know . I can almost see it for an eisbock, but in this context it doesn't make much sense.

 

Seriously -- in what context would it make sense? The term (Barleywine) comes from a completely different culture, as does Eisbock. The 2 beer styles were concocted separately and can (really) only be compared by ABV -- it's a true definition of brewers from different cultures producing different outcomes via different "clientele."

The biggest connection to "style" is that each set of breweries had customers who wanted a kick-in-the-head from their beer. Funny how things don't really change.