Yo dudes. I'm doing a Pliny clone and I can't find American 2-row here in the UK. I'm sure Maris Otter would work beautifully but it wouldn't be totally replication. Any suggestions? Thank you.
I personally would swap in Golden Promise if available. Its more in line with typical row 2 for lovibond, extract percent, and moisture content. Maris otter is slightly darker, and has nutty undertones. Great base malt for stouts IMO.
Have you considered pilsner as your base malt? I've have some good results with MO but I find the malt character is also a bit more prevalent than I would have liked. Good luck with the brew, I've always wanted to do a pliny clone
Color doesn't mean anything. And the other specs only will really mean anything in a full scale brewery. Golden Promise is significantly more flavorful than Maris Otter. And Maris Otter is significantly more flavorful than American 2 row. I'd say American Pilsner Malt would be the closest. American 2 row is generically sweet and grainy. American Pilsner is grainy and grassy.
It does if appearance is important. But's it's also an indicator of the degree of kilning. In general, darker base malts have more of what I would generically call the "toasty" flavors. In that spectrum is the "nutty" @WTCrane mentioned. To my palate, typical Maris Otter is nuttier than GP. And I don't believe it's due to the fact that the barley is a different variety, at least not solely. Gotta disagree there. But maybe it depends on one's definition of flavorful. Yeah. Not even close, really.
I did side by side tastings of Maris Otter, Golden Promise, Weyermans Pilsner and an American Pale malt. I did what I could to follow the ASBC Hot Steep Sensory method using coffee filters instead of the expensive filter paper specified. Maris Otter may have had a slightly nuttier flavor but it was subtle. The Golden Promise was significantly stronger tasting. Much farther away from the bland sweet 2 row. If you can't get American Pale malt I don't think that you'll find anything as bland in the UK or Europe. All of the American maltsters spent half a century with the goal of making as tasteless of a product as possible for their customers making the bland American adjunct lagers. Grainy grassy pilsner malt would probably be the most similar. Maybe Belgian pilsner malt and I don't know how English lager malt compares to German Pilsner Malt.
I normally use an English lager malt. I've always assumed that if people are bothering to broadcast that it's Named Variety it's because Named Variety is more flavourful than Meh Whatever and not the other way around (although that might be naivety on my part) so for two row I go for something light without no specified malt variety. Obvious point, but no barley variety is automatically darker than any other - so looking at the Malt Miller's offerings, Thomas Fawcett quote the same EBC for Maris and Golden Promise (4.5-5.5), Crisp Maris Otter is marginally darker (6) but they also offer Extra Pale Maris Otter which is significantly lighter (3) - about the same as their Lager Malt (which is actually Flagon if you read the small print). Hence I'd pick the lager malt.
I've never used the method, but I have read about it. My concern with it is that it approximates (sort of) the flavor contribution of a malt after mashing, but not after boiling and fermentation. So much happens in the boil (particularly) with malt flavors, due to Maillard reactions, which happen to depend on transformation of sugars and amino acids ultimately derived from the malt. Not to mention that a sweeter wort does not necessarily lead to a sweeter beer post fermentation. I'd like to see some sensory panel tests of finished SMaSH beers, and SMaNoH beers, to really focus on the "finished product" contributions of base malts.
Maillard reactions really don't start happening until 280 Fahrenheit. Boiling wort doesn't get over 212 Fahrenheit until after the water has been removed. Maillard reactions are also much more about color than flavor. Caramelization of sugars causes more flavor in cooking... But again do not necessarily happen in boiling wort at the low temperature. Any potential changes like this would be related to the process and won't matter between the barley variety. I wasn't basing any judgement on the sweetness from this hot steeping but on the other flavor characteristics. In fact none of the hot steeping samples were heavily sweet. I was pleased that they actually tasted more like finished beer maltiness than the wort before fermentation. Wort is to sweet for me to really judge flavors but these steeped samples weren't. I will say that I didn't record profiles of these malts because I wasn't really planning on sharing the results. I was just trying to figure out if I wanted to use Maris Otter or Golden Promise or so me other base malt for some Mild/Bitter recipes I was making a lot of. I thought Golden Promise definitely had the most flavor contribution so that's the one I was sticking with. But as with American blond ales made with just 2-row it is an exceptionally bland malt and I don't think that any from Europe will be that bland.
They certainly happen faster at higher temps, but they do happen in boiling wort. I wouldn't say that. Some of the Maillard products affect color, i.e. melanoidins. Many others, such as pyrazines, affect flavor. Yes on being related to process, but disagree on barley variety and/or malt not mattering. At least, I've seen no evidence that it doesn't matter, and logic says that two worts containing different amounts of the various reactants might result in different amounts of products. Doing sensory analysis on finished beer instead of steeped grains would render the point moot from a practical standpoint.
The grain that is sold as "stout malt" in Ireland will be a decent compromise if you have it in the UK - about halfway between lager malt and pale ale malt. FWIW, the Alchemist here in VT uses UK Pearl in Heady Topper. Golden Promise is good stuff too. edit: if you're cloning Pliny you will be using some sugar too, which will dilute the malt flavor a bit. Take this into consideration.
