Rob Tod is a James Beard semi-finalist

It would be surprising if this wasn’t the case. White is by far their mostly widely available beer and the one that put them on the map.

 

Jester King makes awesome beer. I love Allagash (i'll be there Saturday for Little Sal). But Jester King is 2nd to Hill Farmstead for barrel aged wilds for me.

Honestly though, Jester King distribution stuff is generally crap. The really good fruited sours never hit distro so many people only get to try the stuff that doesn't sell out on the farm, and have a skewed opinion. Simple Means tastes like pennies, Commercial Suicide is gross, Funk Metal is terrible, Figlet isn't good, C.Toby is meh. American Saison/Boxer's revenge are the only 2 I like that i've seen hit distribution.

Luckily I have family in San Antonio and I can get Jester King up here pretty regularly. Das Uberkind is an amazing beer, whatever they rack it over makes amazing beer. Be it Raspberries for Atrial, or peaches for Fen Tao. Spon's have all been good to me. I even like the spent fruit beers. Li Vien Rose was awesome last year. All the good stuff is brewery only.

 

I know, never said you did, it was @AlcahueteJ saying the "jumping on trends" thing.

Of course they can.They were a major driver in the US craft drinker's hop obsession. Now that's morphed into a sweeter taste and a desire to buy your beer super locally. They've been around 30 some-odd years. Shit happens.

problematic.

That's entirely my point. Were witbiers' and IPAs' popularity swapped, we would maybe see the million-barrel brewing behemoth Allagash trend-hopping to try to capture back some market lost to the thousands of new breweries biting at their heels. And we'd be reading articles about humble Ken Grossman who ignored trends and embraced slow steady growth perfecting SN's craft at hoppy pale ales.

But it's the other way, and it's hard not to give a lot of credit to Sierra Nevada for it being the other way. They've been open nearly 40 years and got America to love hops. Seems like mission accomplished to me.

Right but SN isn't really shifting styles. The proper analog would be a historically Belgian brewery all of the sudden brewing New England Trippels.

 

Using this logic, shouldn't Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale be increasing in popularity because a classic pale ale isn't popular anymore? Who are they competing against in that space?

Let's compare a similar beer in each of their profiles. Take Kellerweis. They had to remove it from their regular line up because it wasn't selling well.

In my opinion, it's a testament that Allagash White continues to sell as well as it does, it's simply not a popular style. And again, even more so because they are competing with the behemoth that is Blue Moon.

I also don't think we can really compare the two breweries. If Allagash was the size of Sierra Nevada I'm sure they'd be forced to broaden their portfolio too.

There's no example of a brewery Sierra Nevada's size that has stayed true to their theme like Allagash has.

Fair enough. But Sierra Nevada has still jumped on trends. I'll just quote myself from before below.

 

So why isn't SN pivoting to witbiers, if they're so easy to sell compared to IPAs? You seem to be saying that Allagash hasn't had to change because there's little competition for what they do, but if that's true... someone should come in and provide that competition, right? Belgian themed breweries are the $100 bill on the street that no one wants to pick up for some reason?

(And again, I think these kinds of hypotheticals are pointless anyway. If the world were different, how different would the world be? As different as you'd like to imagine it being!)

 

Well that's like saying Bud Light sells well even though its not a popular style. Witbiers aren't an overly popular style for craft beer geeks but for the average beer drinker Allgash White is a very approachable beer. Even if you don't like witbiers I think you'd be hard pressed to not think Allagash White is an incredibly well made beer. As you can see in my profile picture I have an Allagash White tap handle, I actually don't drink it that often but for about 7-8 months of the year I have it on tap for my wife. I won't say no to drinking it and every time I do I have to admit it would be hard to make a better witbier.

So Allagash White is still popular because its an approachable style and because its a very well made beer. Allagash follows and sets trends but whatever they do they do with great attention to detail. It certainly built Allagash into what it is today and accounts for most of their revenue. If Rob Tod was to start today instead of over 20 years ago I'm not sure he wouldn't have to resort to more trendy beers. Launching Allagash White today would probably be harder than it was when he first started, and if you know the story of the beer you know he worked very hard to get people to even try it. Actually I should change that, today it would be easy for him to get people to try it but it would be hard to build a brewery based on it. On the other hand Oxbow is in many ways what Allagash might be if they started today. They make incredible beers as well but they don't really seem concerned with being the biggest brewery. Would Mystic Brewery have stayed open if they never pivoted to trendy beers?

Now comparing them to something like Sierra Nevada, well truth be told SN aren't trying to make the best beer possible. Its not to say they aren't making good beer, its just saying that they are more concerned now with making beers that will sell than making the best version of a style. Their contributions to the industry are immense but they are just a different beast than Allagash. You can't really compare the two, so many different things going on with them.

 

I havent had much Jester King, but I find it hard to believe its much better than Allagash's Farm to Face, Coolship, pick your own, etc. To me their small, limited bottles are as good as wild/barrel aged stuff gets.

 

There's no doubt the style is very approachable. Which is kind of my point.

Your average beer geek probably isn't into Witbiers, at least not enough to purchase them routinely. So your average beer drinker buys it, because they find it approachable.

But, why would your average beer drinker shell out the cash for an Allagash White four pack when they can buy Blue Moon for MUCH cheaper. Not to mention the latter has heavy marketing behind it.

But Allagash White is THAT good, that it still sells very well. And I'm sure that's to both beer geeks and your Average Joe six pack beer drinker.

 

No matter what the quality is though, selling that much beer is pretty much always a function of marketing. Anecdotally, I feel like their secret sauce is that they're maybe the most respected craft brewery outside of craft beer circles. Like a certain type of Wholefoods customer who mostly drinks wine, doesn't have much beer knowledge, but sees the Allagash brand as the sort of premium-local-craft product they're attracted to. Even if you don't know the difference in origin between Allagash and Blue Moon, the Allagash packaging looks more sophisticated and upscale. Plus, the best marketing trick of all if you can pull it off: the higher prices implies higher quality.

I think maybe that's where sticking so closely to the Belgian theme really helps them with these customers. Belgians tend to be pretty accessible for casual beer drinkers, and because they stick pretty closely to that theme in their normal lineup, people who don't know the names of any hop varieties can feel confident as a beer consumer with Allagash.

 

I think we (the craft beer geeks) tend to think of the average beer drinker as a homogeneous group. I think lots of those beer drinkers want to drink better tasting beer but they aren't very experimental or they don't like certain craft beer styles (IPA's, stouts, etc.). My wife is one of those people. As she's visited breweries with me she's realized that Blue Moon just doesn't cut it. The difficulty is finding a good craft beer that's consistently available and not an IPA/Stout/Sour/etc.. Allagash White is one of the few beers that is consistently available, quite good, and not overly expensive. Her favorite brewery right now is probably Oxbow up in Portland. I was up there this weekend and brought her back some of their Farmhouse Ale and Alpha Minor. The Alpha Minor was new to her and she loved it but its probably not going to be available once she runs out. We approach craft very differently but we both appreciate a good beer. My guess is that people like her are underserved in the craft beer world and Allagash White's success is partly because that group is underserved. Seeing the financial announcements from Boston Beer Company kind of tells me the same story. Sam '76 sales were up by like 78% so far this year.

But your points about the cost and marketing of beers like Blue Moon are true. I don't think the smaller craft breweries have figured out how to compete against a beer like Blue Moon even if there is demand for better versions of beer like it other beers that appeal to a broader audience. Allagash and Sam Adams have the ability to do it but Oxbow not so much. My wife would have never tried Oxbow if it wasn't for me recommending it the last time we were up in Portland together. I do have to say though that Oxbow's staff is incredible, very knowledgeable and willing to talk to you about what someone may or may not like about a beer. That goes a long way to helping people like my wife who aren't looking for extremes.

 

2nd this as my wife is a similarly casual beer drinker but likes good beer when she tries it.
Allagash White, one of my favorites from way back (Celis White too!), was one of those starter beers that opened my palate a bit. It is still the beer to have when stuck in some restaurant that only has one decent tap, and thankfully it's Allagash!

Always been an admirer of Rob Tod/Allagash as well, so cheers to him for being nominated!

 

Breweries should spend less time thinking about the next hot style and more on why their demographic appeal is so stubbornly narrow.

Jack's Abby does really well at this too, I think.

 

I think like most industries the beer industry equates making money to a good business plan. They don't look at what keeps people coming back once the current fad ends? I agree that Jacks Abby is a great example of trying to expand their demographic or at least their appeal. They might not be the "sexiest" brewery out there but they are well respected in several different styles. Even if you don't like beer their brewery is still appealing, its a great restaurant on its own IMHO. The split breweries focusing on different things I think was a brilliant move. Adding Ales and Sours to Jacks Abby would have diluted their brand so the Springdale concept I think was great. It gives them flexibility going forward. You also get two different brewery vibes in one building. I'll be interested to see how Night Shift's new brewery/restaurant comes out. Hopefully they took a page from JA and created something that is appealing on its own.

I went to Tree House last week and there were I believe 14 different beers available, most without any limits (2 stouts and 12 IPA variants). It was still pretty busy on a Wednesday afternoon but not like the old days. Some of the beer I got was a few weeks old, the last time I was there last year I don't think I got anything more than a few days old. I love their beer but I'm not sure what's going to really drive me to go to the brewery that much any more. Same with Trillium, I'm kind of intrigued by their restaurant in Fort Point but not sure what would bring me out to Canton. Eventually both of those places will need to distribute and make their breweries more intriguing places to go. All the places that used to sell out are having more and more inventory these days. I was up at Bissell Brothers over the weekend and there were like 9 or 10 cans available. Swish still sold out I think by the Sunday but its definitely a different experience. I'm more likely to visit Bissell solely because Portland in general is a big draw. I'd rather drive about 2 hours up to Portland and visit Bissell, Allagash, Definitive, Austin St, Battery Steele, Foundation, and Oxbow than the hour or so to Tree House. Bissell's 9 or 10 variants had much more variety than Tree House's 14 to be honest as well. Then you add in places like Allagash and Oxbow within close proximity and its kind of a no brainer where to spend my time and money.

 

I'm curious about this too. My guess is that the creation of Nite Lite and the opening of a location near where the Bruins and Celtics play is not a coincidence. I think the new place might be a bit less aimed at geeks than their home in Everett is.

 

I think we have a bit of a skewed perspective when we start thinking that a brewery’s business model is fundamentally flawed just because every IPA they release doesn’t sell out within hours. Certainly they may need to make batch adjustments for the relatively few beers that seem to be sitting for a month or more, but I don’t think it’s at all problematic to see IPAs that are taking a couple of weeks to sell. Especially considering that we’re in the middle of winter. Actually, I think the old model of lines and instant sell outs was much more of a problem than what we are seeing now. It seems that we are moving towards a kind of equilibrium with some of the more established NEIPA breweries where they still sell all of their beer, but it takes a couple of weeks instead of a couple of hours. I think that’s a good thing.

 

Lots of interesting thoughts in here. I would say that the one thing that stands out about Tree House versus other hop houses is that their yeast character is extremely distinctive versus everyone else's. Now that I am removed from the NE scene a little bit, I find myself craving Tree House hops more than anything else (okay, besides HF) because their house character hasn't really been duplicated by anyone. I feel that most hoppy beers that I can get are similar to the Bissell/Trillium vein.

I hadn't really given much thought to Tree House kind of being on an island like other breweries. If you're going out there, it really is a TH centric trip for the most part.

 

I certainly didn't want to say that either Tree House or Trillium's business model is fundamentally flawed. My point in general was that you can't assume a business model is good just because they are making money. Given what we know of Tree House's revenue and their investments my guess would be that they have made enough money to probably cover what they've spent or at least are in very good shape. Trillium is a bit harder to judge. What we do know is that Tree House has the potential for a lot of capacity and is currently operating at a fairly high capacity that is finally starting to outpace their demand. Their challenge now is what to do next and will shape what type of business they become going forward. If I was a betting man I would expect them to start kegging their core beers like Julius and sending them out to bars. The biggest profit for any brewery is getting people to come to their brewery and spend money there. So now they are faced with how do they continue to drive people to their brewery as well as sell enough beer to not have too much of a backup.

The future is also a question for how long will the NE IPA fad last? Over the past few years Trillium has continued demand by putting out more and more new variants of their beers. At some point demand is no longer going to care about a beer that is slightly different than another beer. That might be a year down the road of 5 years down the road. Tree House are damn good brewers so personally I think they are in better shape than say Trillium. Trillium is great but how much are the Tetreault's involved vs Nate? I think that plays a lot into how much the future quality continues. Quality and variety in styles is one option to keep people coming out to Tree House but at this point their variety is a bit limited. So basically my point is what is Tree House going to do long term to keep people coming back to their brewery which is the biggest profit center? They haven't had to think very hard on how to do this so far. Breweries like Jack's Abby and Night Shift have spent the past few years trying to figure out how to make their breweries a destination now that people are less excited about their beers.

 

I agree. From an outside perspective, it seems like Nate is more intimately involved with the day to day brewing than the Trillium founders are. I personally think Trillium has really dropped in quality. It really seems that if Tree House is putting their name on something, they want it to be super high quality. Trillium on the other hand seems to have less of a problem releasing stuff that isnt top notch. For instance, once Tree House really starts their barrel program, im sure it will be very good. Nate just seems like that kind of obsessive type. Im not a TH fanboy or a Trillium hater at all, I hardly drink either of them anymore, nut its just something that ive noticed.

 

Nate's wife Lauren was still at the cash registers when I went in last week so I think they are pretty darned involved.

 

Nate took my can order on Saturday....was definitely surprised/impressed by that.