BrewDog Acquires Stone Berlin

yeah, id like to see some more proof that the best-selling beers in German Getraenkemaerkte are as a rule 6+ months old. I check the stuff my in-laws buy when I get there and it's never that old.

 

FWIW the Jever bottles we obtain in the US have both a packaged on date and a best by date which is 15 months from the packaged date. Maybe this 15 month duration is an export thing?

Cheers!

 

have you noticed dates from bottles you can acquire at the Koelsch brewery-taverns? Those bottles would not have gone through distribution

 

This is especially odd since most Stone beer in the US still comes in bottles.

 

It seems clear to me that Koch overestimated Germans' appetite for and ability to embrace good beer. Anyone anywhere in the world who turns his nose up at canned beer in 2019 is simply ignorant. It seems that there's a huge gap between the perception of Germans' knowledge of and sophistication regarding beer and their typical actual levels of those attributes, both among Americans and Germans. Germans' pride in their brewing heritage is only holding them back from doing better, like a college football program with an old-school head coach that is getting surpassed by less heralded programs because it refuses to modernize and innovate as it clings to and plays up its glorious past. While the average German beer customer certainly tends to drink better beer than the average American beer customer, the average American craft beer enthusiast (at least among those who don't stick to a narrow style range) blows the average German beer customer out of the water in terms of interest in, knowledge about, and ability to appreciate a wide swath of beer.

Germany is centuries ahead of the United States when it comes to beer in general but decades behind when it comes to craft beer, and the best beer made in the United States blows the best beer made in Germany completely out of the water. I say that as someone who is a long-time purchaser of German imports and who is unusually attracted to German styles by 2019 American craft beer consumer standards. Heck, I've had many superior German-style beers from the best American craft breweries that specialize in that stuff (including @bergbrew's Schell's, even though I wouldn't be surprised if he denies it out of misguided modesty) to much of the all-too-rare fresh product that we receive from highly regarded German breweries and that I seek out; we don't necessarily even have to get into IPAs, imperial stouts, or any other flavorful style that the top American craft breweries execute superbly and that most Germans join most Americans in being unable to handle. I see no need to pretend otherwise.

The failure of Stone's German venture is overexplained, but one of the many reasons is what Koch legitimately cited, that a frustratingly large proportion of Germans stubbornly sticks to cheap, intentionally low-flavor, borderline swill, and a frustratingly small proportion is knowledgeable and sophisticated enough to seek better (as exemplified by their clinging to outdated anti-can myths).

People around here know I'm perfectly willing to call out what I consider the bad aspects of American beer. I'm not going to give Germany a total pass just because it's foreign and has some legitimately laudable aspects. You can call that arrogance. I call it accuracy.

 

beer: it's not a competition.

 

Considering that many of your posts in this thread rely on the arguments that Germany has an outstanding brewing tradition, cheap German beer is unusually good, and that German consumers on average seek particularly good beer, that's a strange contention. It sounds more like, "beer: it's a competition only until the side I favor is about to lose."

The key is that German beer consumers have a heck of a lot of room for learning and growth, far more than, oddly, many Americans (presumably for cultural rather than beer reasons) want to admit. German beer consumers, like American beer consumers before them, would benefit enormously from an infusion of foreign techniques, flavors, and knowledge, as Koch attempted to provide, if only they gave them a chance. That's something that the all-too-few German beer drinkers with wide interests and adventurous tastes eagerly acknowledge and about which the all-too-many German beer drinkers whose pride vastly exceeds their palates, abetted by some American apologists, are in denial.

 

well, if you insist: my German-style brewery has appeared on numerous national and local "best of" lists and is thriving. Stone just closed. if that's denial or "losing" on my part, I'll take it.

If we're being non-biased and non-competitive: I love German, Czech, UK, Belgian, and American beer and beer culture. All have their faults, but none is objectively superior or inferior to the other. In my opinion, of course

 

Oh I don't actually know this for a fact. I was more curious than anything else.

I agree, I don't think Koch was specifically slamming German beer culture and the "better" beers. I simply feel some of the more mass produced beer is in fact a quality product, like Spaten Helles.

I disagree with this. I think fresh Bitburger Pils is much closer to some of the better Pils in Germany than it is to Bud.

Hmm, this is a good question!

 

ive bought bottles at Malzmuhle

 

It seems to me that the baton is now passed to BrewDog. Stay tuned to see how they fare here.

Cheers!

 

As I mentioned previously, the Germans are slow to change. They need to ensure everything is researched and thought out before adopting something. Uber is an example I used.

It’s not that they WON’T change though. I won’t argue this is necessarily the best way to go about things (or argue it isn’t), but it is what I’ve personally observed.

Regarding German beer itself, I don’t entirely disagree with you, but I have to ask if you’ve had beer IN Germany.

 

I don't know the German culture/market, so what I am saying/asking here (and this post is largely me asking whether my interpretation of what is going down here is accurate, or not) is in response to comments within this thread.

Seems to me that Koch misread the mid-tier beer market that seems to be quite prevalent in Germany. Sounds like he is correct in his comments that Germany is just like America in that its largest drinking population is dominated in large by a drinking population driven by the desire for a buzz, a motivation to spend as little as popular, and a willingness to not look too deeply into flavor/quality. What he seems to be ignoring (probably intentionally) is that there is (appears to be?) a whole market between the "low end" he refers to and the "high end" he puts himself into, and that ignored middle tier is one that provides Germany with the quality they want and the value they seek?

While Americans have shown a willingness to spend whatever is asked of them, even when that pricepoint is as much about demand (and, yes, I am sure productions costs too) and not about quality, sounds like Germans are more grounded than America where they aren't so driven by the FOMO phenomenom and they aren't going to happily spend $20+ for the latest 4 pack when there is a better option available for them at half the cost, albeit not something new. So if Germany is grounded enough that they are prioritizing a balance of quality and value and aren't going to rush out to the store just to try the latest, newest thing, and (probably most relevantly) has a slew of options available to them that already meet their needs and interests, than Koch was going to need some time (and probably some tact as well) to accomplish his desired culture change that would appear to be needed to enable Stone and their higher costs to succeed.

I don't think their mission was by any means impossible, but American craft did not get to where it is today in 3 or so years, and it took more than one brewery to do so. I'd have to imagine that Stone probably benefited a great deal by having the likes of Sierra Nevada, Boston Beer Company, Yuengling(?) around, who could bring in new craft drinkers into the fold at a cheaper price point before graduating to the higher cost Stone products. They also started smaller and grew based on demand. This whole Germany adventure was far more aggressive and considering their (adjusted) time frame was all or nothing, either it would be a success right out of the gate or a failure. Sounds like it was leaning towards failure and they found themselves a nice safety net.

 

From my experience in Koln (which was several years ago at this point) the kolsch breweries/taprooms didn't sell bottles, just draft, and most (as @Snowcrash000 said) didn't brew on-site. Still an awesome experience, though!

 

You give American consumers far too much credit.

 

Yes would be my vote, because I believe a huge part of what has allowed the American "craft" scene to take off is that people just want to try the newest, latest thing. Even in the popular styles of today, too many people are more than happy to pay for, to trade for the latest most expensive release when there remains better options at half the cost just sitting on the shelves waiting to be drank.

Perhaps it would have taken a little longer before we got here, but probably not. Because while the lack of quality options might have been a driving force, there sure seems like there was just as much interest in being innovative and bringing new things (not just improved things) to the table.

 

Hey @Snowcrash000 (or other people familiar with Koln), can you place these photos based on the environs/coaster?