BrewDog Acquires Stone Berlin

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out where this restaurant was, but not having much luck. I think it wasn't Päffgen itself, just a bier hall that sold their beer. Somewhere near the Messe.

Edit: I think actually it might be Gaststätte Lommerzheim.

 

Well, loved that place. It was crowded as hell when we went (expected during Photokina, I guess), but very welcoming and the food + beer were extremely satisfying.

 

Yup. Greg definitely followed the philosophy of 'go BIG or go home' as regards Stone Berlin. Unfortunately for Greg this turned into a 'go home' situation.

And hopefully this 'transfer' of Stone to BrewDog is a win-win situation. Stone gets some money (and debt relief) and BrewDog gets a brewery on the continent which provides them with some much needed business flexibility as the whole Brexit fiasco comes to completion.

Cheers!

 

So I'm wondering what will brewdog's plan be?

I always see these for lease spaces that were previously so and so restaurant. And then they go under. And the next restaurant up uses the same space. They almost never work out.

Can they price their beer lower? Can they make beers others truly want? Do they already have a euro following? Can their odd ball marketing make it work?

I wonder if Stone broke even or if this was a fire sale of sorts?

 

Yes, I did catch your comments about Stone's price point relative to the other "craft" offerings, though did not catch that they actually represented the "best value for money you could find in German craft." That is certainly not something you could say about their offerings here in America, so that actually caught me by surprise. To Koch's credit, maybe he was being a little more attentive to the German market than I was aware.

And the whole can thing, as someone who it took a long, long, long, long time to open up to cans and only did it by force (when I moved down to Albuquerque my 2 favorite local beers were only offered in cans), I can respect that uphill battle he was facing. He probably should have respected that his first battle should have simply been getting the community open to spending the money on Stone beer.

I think the piece I am hazy on is the different tiers of beer that is going in Germany. Koch is hating on the low quality stuff that is dominating sales in Germany, but it seems there is a good deal of back and forth between folks on this site as to what falls into that category. And then, furthermore, when beer/breweries are not being included into that initial low quality category they are also not being put into the 'craft'/high end quality stuff either. So it seems as though there is a middle tier of beer available in Germany that is able to satisfy the needs of those with more discerning paletes who are looking for something more from their beer than what the low end stuff provides and at a much more afforable rate than anything Stone (and anything else "craft") is providing. Is that an accurate interpretation or am I misunderstanding things?

 

I'm not following you on this one. I told you I'm into German styles and think some American breweries join many German breweries in doing them very well. I'd love to see more German-oriented breweries, or broad-scoped breweries that work more German styles into the mix, in the United States. Similarly, it would be nice if beer connoisseurs in Germany had more breweries specializing in "American styles" from which they could choose. I'd be happy to check out your brewery if I'm ever in the area; it sounds like it would be in my wheelhouse. I can appreciate the best of German beer without pretending that the worst of it is somehow laudable, just as I can do with American beer.

I'll also say that American beer and American beer culture between Prohibition and the microbrewing revolution* was pretty darn poor and unworthy of love. It took the infusion of German, Czech, UK, and Belgian influences for them finally to flourish again.

* Before my time, thankfully; no, @AlcahueteJ, I never actually drank beer IN 1930s to 1970s America.

I wasn't responding to you there. I'm enjoying your perspective and contributions to this thread, and I think we're generally on the same page.

I've been very critical of excessive expansion by large American craft breweries. I think for Stone to start its own production facility overseas was a huge gamble with which I can't imagine I'd have been comfortable if I were a decision-maker at Stone. Companies orders of magnitude larger than Stone struggle with international operations of that sort. I don't think Koch was arrogant** so much as foolhardy, and at least a little bit of foolhardiness is an essential quality to entrepreneurship.

** Isn't this word being thrown around so much only because of the Arrogant Bastard beer he makes?

I'm hopeful that German beer consumers will eventually come around to appreciating a broader array of styles. If everybody didn't reflexively kiss plebeian German beer consumers' asses about how smart and discerning and incomparably great they are, and instead gave them a little guff about their very real limitations and gave support to the German beer lovers who do seek more diverse and better beer, that may help speed along the process. Again, keep in mind that most German beer consumers are buying cheap, low-flavor, generic Euro lagers (which, if you want to count them as representative of discernable styles, then they're the blandest those styles have to offer) that simply do not merit the defense that they're receiving from respected brewers in this thread who surely almost exclusively brew vastly more enjoyable beer.

That's certainly what I'm known for around here, my wide-eyed celebration of American beer consumers.

 

https://www.beeradvocate.com/ratebeer/?path=/beer/lidl-fat-rhino/684356/

Then you throw in the fact that LIDL is selling this beer for ,49 cents a can.

 

A can!?!

No self-respecting German would purchase that beer despite the price since it is in a can!!

Cheers!

 

most Germans purchase beer in returnable bottles and don't like cans bc they are -- despite recyclability -- environmentally...unfriendly? plus, yes, bums drink from them and they are generally used for real "crap" beer. feel free to enlighten them on cans' superiority, tho.

 

Well, if it’s bottles you want, I’ve seen Kaufhof selling off this particular beer for ,99 cents a bottle. Best before September 19. Pretty good deal which blows Stone IPA out of the water.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29780/86502/

 

For me, it's simple. Cans are easier to pack in a cooler while doing outside activities and save space in the fridge. I used to have very snotty retail customers that fussed about the worn edges from German recycled bottles. I thought it was cool and still do. Particularly Mahrs.

 

That's definitely not Päffgen on Salzgasse. Cool photos though, they capture the kölsch kneipe vibe.

 

funniest post of the year, hands down

 

a lot of people have talked a lot of sense on this thread regarding the ins and outs of the german beer market, but heres my 2 euro cents. i obviously hated gregs marketing from the off but thought maybe a european stone brewery maybe had a chance if they were just brewing and distributing throughout europe from there. but......that big old building they took on was crazy, if they took on a big industrial shed that size around alexanderplatz (maybe next to hofbraus place that also wasnt a historic building) they may have sold enough beer on site to tourists to make a living but, even if i like a "craft" beer why on earth would i ever get an s bahn and a bus to marienfeld to pay 4x the price of a normal beer than any of the lovely kneipen in my kiez? shit, i can get a spezial lager in steglitz for 4E and thats pricey. regardless of the craft v not craft v german beer argument, greg just did not have a good business plan here

 

ive bought bottles at Malzmuhle. any of y'all ever been there? best koelsch in town (with Paeffgen)