Batch sparge: 1st sparge got completely stuck, 2nd one was fine. Why?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by GeeL, May 20, 2019.

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  1. GeeL

    GeeL Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2008 Massachusetts

    Hi. I use the batch sparge technique: I mash in, account for absorption, add an "infusion" of hot water to heat the grains and get to 1/2 my pre-boil volume, let it settle a few minutes, sparge, then while that sparge heats to a boil I repeat the process with the other 1/2 pre-boil volume of hotter-than-mash temps (I shoot for 165-170 degrees).

    That said, here's my scenario:
    I have a new vendor for grains and he crushed them much finer than I've seen before. I didn't realize the implication of this until I sparged. I never had a stuck sparge before and this was completely blocked. NOTHING was running. I looked up tricks and nothing worked. (note: I called and asked about this, and he said most of their customers do BIAB so he assumed I did also.)

    I ended up scooping everything into a hops bag, which had to be emptied into a bucket a few times because the bag isn't really huge.

    When I added water to the grains to rinse/batch sparge, everything ran fine.

    My question is this: why did the second sparge run smoothly?

    I'm brewing the same beer again, the grains were crushed the same way, and I'm thinking of wrapping the mainfold (the metal screen of a plumbing tube) with the hop bag.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Probably because second runnings are thinner (lower gravity, less viscous) than first runnings. But you also rearranged the grain bed, so that may have been part of it.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  3. GeeL

    GeeL Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2008 Massachusetts

    Good point, I usually do a pretty thick mash.

    Do people think wrapping the manifold with the hop bag might help?
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Only if the stuck lauter was due to grains clogging the manifold, which is doubtful.
     
  5. GeeL

    GeeL Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2008 Massachusetts

    What caused the blockage?
     
  6. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2018 California

    What do you use for a filtration of the grains while mashing/ lautering? False bottom? Bazooka screen? Other?
     
  7. GeeL

    GeeL Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2008 Massachusetts

    It’s the metal screen from a plumbing hose, I think normally used for toilets. I’ve brewed nearly 200 batches and have never had a stuck sparge.
     
  8. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Ya got me there.

    If it helps I use a false bottom and fly sparge. I use a ratio of 1.5 qts. water per pound for my grist. I would get slower/intermittent stuck sparges towards the end of laurtering but just recently I switched to using a biab for my 10 gal mash tun with the false bottom. Clear wort and a smooth lauter if I keep my sparge water consistent. Even with heavy additions of oats/wheat.

    Possibly maybe your getting channeling or maybe swap out your bazooka tube? Maybe the ball valve?
     
    riptorn likes this.
  9. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Can't say I'm able to follow your process.

    Next time ... adding rice hulls to the mash will prevent stuckage.
    Also ... the water temperature of the 2nd sparge can be much hotter than 165°F - 170°F. The goal is to heat the grain bed to 165°F - 170°F ... so the sparge water temperature should be near 190°F.
     
  10. Bburns87

    Bburns87 Zealot (690) Jun 11, 2013 Illinois

    I'm confused with your process... you say you mash in, then before even draining the tun, you are throwing sparge water in to heat the grains?

    The reason your last sparge didn't get stuck is probably because the grains got stirred up and the pocket that was blocking the flow was moved. Also, your sparge water is going to be very low gravity and flow out easier than your first runnings.
     
  11. GeeL

    GeeL Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2008 Massachusetts

    I'm doing batch #2 right now, and the same damned thing happened. As a quick vent, it seems to me that if a HBS store is going to make assumptions about a brewer's technique (in this case, BIAB and therefore a very fine crush), s/he should ask if a fine or medium crush is needed. I've never, NEVER, had this happen before. It's incredibly frustrating. It's a lot of money, otherwise the whole thing would go into compost...

    Anyway, regarding your comments:

    Skip the process. Wondering why it got stuck... proteins? Even if I add a lot of hot water, it still stays stuck except for the second runnings.

    I stirred the crap out of the grain bed several times, then re-set it before sparging. It still got stuck. I scooped out most of the grains until there was thick, soupy stuff, and it still got stuck.

    Yes, the grain bed gets close to 170.

    But if you're focusing on my process, here you go: I add the strike water. The grains absorb water (.2 gal/pound). Before I get get the first runnings, I add more strike water to get to 1/2 my pre boil volume. This has the added benefit of heating the grains up more so the water runs a little faster, particularly with a thick mash.
     
  12. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Rice hulls are your friend. Use them.
     
  13. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Sounds like the crush. Maybe more water to grain ratio may have helped. Possibly a no-sparge may have worked with a hit to extraction efficiency.
     
  14. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I’m not sure how much difference it makes with a ‘regular’ crush, but the wording sounds like you’re putting dry, finely crushed grains in the mash tun and then adding your strike water. Maybe flour from the fine crush is settling to the bottom of the tun when dumping the grains, and when you add the strike water it turns the flour into a gooey glue-like consistency.
    Just a thought.

    In another thread you mentioned upgrading some of your equipment to do 10-gallon batches. If you can fit a grain mill (< $100) in your budget the grains will be cracked to your liking. :wink:
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  15. jeebeel

    jeebeel Zealot (667) Jun 17, 2003 Texas

    If you've brewed almost 200 batches, you should be able to figure this out by looking carefully at your brewing process with the 2 stuck sparges. What was different? And when I refer to your brewing process, I mean all of it - grain crush, water temp, equipment, etc., and also the intangibles of how your brew routine differed (time of day,distractions such as company, watching kids, drinking beers...).

    I recently brewed my 300th beer and the couple misfires I have had were due to the latter changes to my routine rather than the former :beers:.
     
    riptorn likes this.
  16. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    A stuck sparge led me to a similar place, once. Someone on this forum said something to the effect of "You basically did a brew in a bag." The light bulb in my head turned on. I now use brew in a bag. No more stuck sparges.
     
    NorCalKid likes this.
  17. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Second runnings might have gone thru easier cause a lot of the fines passed thru the first time. I've had this happen when the crush is to fine or when I used rye malt crushed to fine.
     
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