Are we spoiled in 2019?

Not as a website/forum in general but there are certain folks on this site who I pay attention to, who are well versed and experienced with both American and European beer, beer culture, etc, that if the European IPA scene was producing IPA's to the level/quality of the American scene, I would expect there to have been some conversation about it over the years. I would have expected them to chime in when discussions about the style pop up to offer their experience with said beer/brewery, to bring the style up in their discussions for positive beer experiences and preferences from said regions, etc. When folks here discuss beer from Europe, IPA's just have not been the focus from my experience.

 

It's not that we are spoiled, it's that there are quite a few brewers that produce now a common beer that many people despise. As we all understand, Hazy IPA and the like are just crap beers. Beers are now brewed for kids who have been brought up on soda. Make it sweet and undrinkable. The non-traditionalists will love it because they were brought up to drink crap (soda). Are we spoiled? No, we're inundated with crap brewers who brew crap beers.

 

Yeah disagree there. But whatever. This is BA after all

 

The Kernel in London should definitely get discussed more on BA aboot their IPAs, and other beers of theirs, but where are the BAs from the UK? I didn't pick mine off any local shelf or bought them online from a US based store. Shrugs.

 

Interestingly enough, when googling The Kernal the first link I came across was I believe a UK paper writing about them and describing them as an "American Inspired" brewery.

 

I don’t know where you see all that collecting dust, but we need to set up a trade.

 

You have to take regional tastes into consideration. No doubt culture and terroir play a part, too. Perhaps American IPA just don't appeal to the majority of drinkers there? So why would they be motivated to compete with American brewers? I'm not even European, but it seems my tastes lean in that direction, and the only reason I've had so many West Coast IPA is because they're pretty much all that's available in many cases. If fresh, affordable Belgians were available, well...

 

I wonder how many of the folks bemoaning the current state of beer will be heading the nostalgia wave in twenty years when it finally occurs to them, in retrospect, that this was the golden age of beer? As you say it cannot be sustainable, but I must admit that I have loved every stage of the run up to now, and have long been saying, "this can't get any better," yet somehow it has consistently gotten better.

 

I wonder how long it took Chinese people to stop trying to claim their rights to apples and apple pie?

Certainly apples are from China, and certainly the first cooking of them was in China. But at a certain point everyone realized that things have changed, and the expression "American as Apple Pie" is a familiar truism. It isn't "Chinese as apple pie", though a case could be made it should be, and there is no equivalent reverence for the fruit in China as there is in America, nor equivalent legend to match that of Johnny Appleseed, the real life ambassador of our love of apples.

I don't know how long it took for Apples to become a symbol of American fruit, but I predict it will take MUCH less time for the same to happen to American IPA.

 

I’ve never disputed the fact that “American” IPAs are American twists on the style and that in all likelihood the best examples exist over here. Sure wcipas / neipas are American. I have a problem though with people discounting other variants; ones that predate these and that are enjoyed in a completely different country (which happens to be the country where the parent style first originated), and claiming that “IPAs are American and best in America”. But I know my argument (that there is no “best”, that all countries have something of value to add) is somehow contentious on here so I’ll fall into line and say “yes murica is the best country for beer”

 

There is no doubt that everyone is aware of the history of IPA, and of course it is an English invention. My prediction is that the time will come when folks stop pointing it out for the same reasons no one thinks of China when they think of apples. There is no equivalent love for IPA anywhere on Earth, and the modern styles of IPA Americans have been creating with hop breeding and new techniques will dominate the older styles of IPA increasingly. There will come a time when folks will think "American as IPA", and there will be a consensus that it is true, as there is now for apples, and it will take MUCH less time to happen. My predictions, anyway.

 

Some instances of dusty beer on the shelf may be tied to so many beers of the same kind that are just as good, and readily available. But others will sell out because they are in small company with others of their like. The other day at the binnys I go to there was a stack of FW parabola with no limit. I have never seen that in the store here before, much less a stack out in the open. But they will not become dusty as that beer has fewer rivals at the store. And yes we are more spoiled than 10 years ago, but still not spoiled enough because I still haven't seen Russian river

 

The surge in popularity of ipas imo is and was directly proportional to the creative use of Hop varieties that are only available in the US. Ipas are about hops, and no one does it better on so many different varieties, with new experimentals popping up all the time. I’m guessing British Style ipas have that dialed back a bit, and it’s not a style I generally care for. Last night I had FW Luponic Distortion 12, all that fruit flavor is derived from a hop blend, it easy to dump in fruit, much more skill is required to give the fruit and nicely balanced bitter using only Hops.

 

I was not trying to get into the why of things. If I was, I'd certainly buy into that rationale.

You don't have to go 'best' route, you can focus on production, innovation, popularity, hype, influence, presence, etc. America has taken that bull by the horn. In so many ways the entirety of the American beer scene is dominated by the IPA. Is that, has that, ever been the case with the beer cultures elsewhere?

If you actually think I am being this Pro-America/Anti-Not America poster because of this, than I don't know what more to say. Personally, I think you are just trying to be a jerk and goad me on a little...so at this point I will bow out of this with you.

 

Have to agree here. On a weekly basis, new releases or re-releases of a rotating favorite hit the shelves and consumers are overwhelmed by the choices out there. Too many great beers sit on the shelves for nearly a month or longer because there is a tidal wave of great fresh beers coming in 1-2 a week and they are not cheap by any means. Local favorites around here are around $20-$24 for a 4 pack.

 

You’re responding to my response to someone else - and I’m goading you / am the jerk? Ok

 

Ouch, it’s tough to experiment on $20 4 pks. Just a tough high end market on the NEIPAS right now. But it’s certainly not slowing down
any.

 

IMO you are making a good point here; akin to what I suggested in post #97:

"And perhaps the contemporary American beer culture is craft brewing and it would appear we are 'exporting' our culture worldwide?"

There is no doubt that American style IPAs (including the sub-style of NEIPA) is garnering the most attention by craft beer consumers. A perfect example of this is the present day portfolio of Stone Brewing which is dominated by hoppy beers.

Other beer types that get a lot of attention by craft beer drinkers are Barrel Aged beers (e.g., a Bourbon Barrel aged Imperial Stout) and Pastry Stouts (i.e., Stouts brewed with adjuncts like coffee, vanilla, etc.).

There is no doubt in my mind that American craft brewers are brewing a lot of dynamic and interesting beers.

Cheers!

 

I would 100% agree with this Jack. An American friend of mine now owns a brewery in Paris. That would not have been possible prior to the craft brew revolution that's spread across much of the globe (Deck and Donahue as a shout out!). And, based on my interactions with brewers and "beer people" in Germany, they're interested in looking at new things, and there are some breweries that are turning out very good stuff. Rome and the surrounding areas are totally on top of the craft brew movement, as is Barcelona in a big way, and I'm sure there are many other cities in Europe as well. I've found great beers all around, including Vienna and Prague. And let's not forget Japan! So, overall, I think that you're completely correct in that we're exporting "our culture" across the globe.

The question then becomes, is globalization and homogenization a good thing? I think it is because it's inevitable, first of all, and then each culture will retain part of itself in reflecting what they've learned/seen/embraced. I don't believe that things like the cask ales of England will disappear at this point because of this, but to the contrary, that they'll be amplified because of it. Was English food completely transformed because they brought back dishes from India? - No, they simply incorporated them into their own food scene; and they invented a few new dishes along the way. I see this as a win-win across the board.

P.S. - Scandinavia seems to be going nuts with beer!