How to classify India Pale Lagers?

I realized the difference with an accidental taste test a while back. I finished a Post Shift and then opened my first ever Sunny Ridge.
Sunny is much closer to the german style I prefer, unfortunately it's been pulled from the shelves and replaced with their tropical IPL.

 

I don’t know Jack’s Abby beers all that well so I can’t speak towards whether or not that particular beer would stand out in a lineup with IPA’s, but I do know that every IPL I’ve brewed is easily distinguishable from my IPA’s.

I think just like with ale yeast strains, some lager strains show off hops better than others do. I find the unique ester profile of Augustiner Lager yeast to be a fantastic compliment to American hops. I find the perception of bitterness to be higher than what the IBU’s actually are when brewing IPL’s, so for me it’s all about hopbursting when brewing those beers.

While I have respect for Jack’s Abby, I think saying that the malts don’t need to be their “expensive” malts for hoppy beers is one of the most absurd things and speaking in general terms, when I hear brewers make that comment (which is shockingly frequent) I lose some respect for them. Just between the 3 Weyermann Pils malts that I use (Extra Pale, regular Pils, and Bohemian Floor Malted Pils) there are huge differences that are noticeable even when I’m hopping in excess of 8 lbs of hops per bbl.

 

This was from a post I made in 2013, so perhaps their recipes have changed.

This is from an interview with Jack Hendler.


'On the question, "Do you use a different grain bill for an IPL than a traditional lager?"

Jack Hendler from Jack's Abby replies: "For extra-hoppy American-hopped IPLs, a neutral 2-row malt works best to minimize competing flavors. Why buy expensive and unique base malt when those flavors will only get muted out and negatively affect the hop character?"

On the question, "What type of balance are you looking for in your IPL?"

Hendler replies, "Balance can come in many forms, it's not just a malt-to-hop balance. You can balance bitterness with aroma, yeast flavor with hops, malt with alcohol, etc. Most of our IPLs tend to minimize malt and highlight hops."'

Do you think your customers could notice?

I can't speak to your IPLs obviously, and I have no idea what yeast strain Jack's Abby is using either.

But personally the Pils malt profile takes a backseat in the IPLs I've had that I recall using them (I don't drink them often, so it's hard to say in recent memory which may have used Pils malt).

I definitely know some New England IPAs that use them (off the top of my head I know Trillium does) and there's no way in hell I'm getting sweet bready flavors from a New England IPA.

 

I would be surprised if our customers couldn’t tell a difference between the 3. The Bohemian Floor Malted Pils has a very intense bready flavor with a light hay character in there. It is also relatively sweet and it contributes to the best head retention of the three. The Extra Pale Premium Pils has a honey-like component to it and the original Pils is probably most in line with what we think of Pils Malt tasting like.

In my NEIPA’s I normally use Floor Malted Maris Otter and then I have a series of beers (called Bright and Juicy) that features Floor Malted Bohemian Pils since it allows the “brighter” hop flavors from hops like Amarillo and Nelson, (flavors like red grapefruit, key lime, kiwi, etc) to shine whereas the Maris Otter provides a base that I feel is better for more intense hop flavors like you normally find in Citra and Mosaic (melon, cantaloupe, peach, overripe blueberries, etc.). In a similar manner, I use the hop profiles in my IPL’s to determine which of the Pils malts to use.

 

Calling IPL a gimmick hurts my soul, especially when I remember how many people called Brut IPA the "next big thing" and the "trendy new style in beer". IPL's are fun changes of pace, hope they eventually become more prominent.

 

Could just be the distribution in my area but I honestly didn't know this was still a thing. Pretty sure during the brief time that it seemed to be a fad that Ballast Point Fathom was labeled as one (not anymore) but I could be remembering that wrong

 

Why not stick with a pilsner, then?

 

Yeah, this is wrong.

That's okay though; we're all wrong sometimes.

 

That’s like, your opinion, man

 

Well that is debatable on when does a hoppy pilsner become an IPL. Most of these beers were hopped at a higher rate than your traditional German pils. And used a range of hops not usually used in pilsners. I guess they could be classified as an Italian pils, or New Zealand pils (when they used Southern Hemisphere hops) but not sure what the IBU's were on those brewed.

 

Northern German Pilsners, especially fresh from the source, are pretty darn hoppy.

Not as hoppy as an IPL though. I would say when you can long detect an appreciable amount of Pils malt is when it ceases to be a Pilsner. Or at the very least, when the balance becomes skewed heavily towards the hops in the beer, and not the malt.

Because the style is called a PILSNER.

 

"Would you give a guy a foot massage?"
What makes it "India"? I would say bits of both sides make sense here. What does an DIPA have to do with India? Isn't it just an over hopped Strong Ale? I think the difference between Lager and Ale is big. Especially to a brewer. An ale could be fermented in days and lagers can take months. One ferments on top and one ferments on the bottom. I think it's more than semantics here. If you can have a NEIPA, there is room for an IPL. Especially if you start seeing more breweries pumping out lagers that are that hoppy possibly at such abv above the normal American Lager. If Germany didnt invent the style and name for a Kolsch, that could be something that could be argued in the same regard as what's being argued here. Argued or discussed. More semantics I guess. I think the term Sour IPA is way more of a WTF?
Cheers everybody!

 

Personally no, I think they make great beers, if there’s a gimmick here it’s lost on me. I’d love to be able to buy their beers.

 

Yes, to this right here. I love this style...it really puts the hops on center stage

 

Carton brewed an " Imperial Pale Ale" which I did not quite get. Tasted like an IPA. I always considered the APA the baby brother of AIPA-

 

India Pale Lager should definitely have a category distinct from "American Lager" whether you dig IPLs or not. Any brewery in this country stuffing their lagers with 50+ IBUs of American hops will not simply call their beer "American Lager." The two most-rated American Lagers on this site's listing are Longboard Island Lager and Hoponius Union; those beers are obviously worlds apart in terms of style intention. That would be akin to lumping blonde ales and IPAs together in an "American Ale" category.

Most of the new American-style lagers coming out exist somewhere on the continuum of CAP -- Helles -- Pils. This is actually a huge frustration when breweries come out with a new lager and just label is "Premium Lager" or some crap in the stores with no real indication of what it's supposed to taste like other than "crisp."

 

My suggestion is to categorize IPLs in the American Imperial Pilsener category
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/styles/164/
This is where they have been categorized over the years in the past. The higher levels of hop character in an "IPL" are a better fit for this category than the basic American Lager category, IMO.

 

First time I've read the American Imperial Pilsner description. Based on the flavor profile you could make an argument for merging India Pale Lager & American Imperial Pilsner into a catagory called Imperial Pale Lager.

 

I've never had an IPL that had "...a more pronounced malty backbone..." or "Malt flavors (that) tend to be quite sweet..."

The IPLs I've tasted have been pretty thin in the malt flavor category and over-hopped with American hops.

The Imperial Pilsner is, basically, a hopped up Maibock.

 

I would eliminate the Imperial Pilsner category before I'd start shoehorning more stuff that doesn't belong into it.