First timer: how to brew in 14 days or less?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by acannell, Jul 15, 2019.

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  1. deadwolfbones

    deadwolfbones Pundit (795) Jun 21, 2014 Oregon

    Haha, whoops. Second mention should be "hydrometer."
     
  2. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    Hmm so I think I would like to not use the honey priming specified in the original APA recipe since now I have more of a wheat pale ale with mosiac/citra/amarillo and honey after-effects doesn't sound so good. Is there a way I can estimate priming sugar needs? I think my gallon fermenter was underfilled, I wasnt sure where the "gallon" mark was (as can be seen in the pics).

    I will have a hydrometer tomorrow and bottling day is Saturday

    Any use in tasting the wort on Saturday during bottling? Can I tell anything from it?
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I make it a practice to taste my hydrometer sample when bottling as a 'quality assurance' test. I look to see if there are any off flavors present which could be due to an infection. residual primary fermentation by-products, etc.

    Entirely your choice here whether you want to taste your sample.

    Cheers!
     
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  4. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    Okay I know this is asking alot..but if there is no infection..what should it taste like? "Sweet alcoholy uncarbonated hop fluid"?
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It should taste like flat beer (but the flavor profile will mature during the bottle conditioning process).

    Let's further explore two aspects:

    Carbonation

    Flat beer will taste a bit 'meh' since carbonation is a flavor 'enhancer' - the bubbles carry aromatics up to your olfactory senses (both directly to your nose but also within your mouth - Retronasal).

    Conditioning during the bottle conditioning phase

    The beer is going through a genuine secondary fermentation within the bottle. This will further develop and 'round out' the flavor profile.

    Don't expect your sample to taste great since it is not carbonated and it has not gone through the conditioning phase detailed above.

    Cheers!
     
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  6. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    Okay thanks, I will definitely taste it and measure with the hydrometer (out of curiousity) and report back on both
     
  7. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    If you taste any of the flavors in the attached link, something went wrong. Maybe the beer is recoverable with additional time, maybe not. That's why it's always good to let the yeast have a few extra days to clean up their waste products. http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors
     
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  8. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    First of all, I agree with your decision not to use honey. Honey is an unreliable source of priming sugar because it is a natural product with variable contents. Table sugar is the way to go. Here is a calculator that should do the trick. Note that where you enter temperature, you should enter the highest temperature of the beer since fermentation finished. For you, with your temp control, this should be easy to determine.

    Second, you need to figure out your volume of beer to use the calculator. One point I'd make is that if you aim for a middle-of-the-road level of carbonation, like 2.5 volumes, there is a fair amount of tolerance for error. You're not going to blow up your bottles at 2.8 volumes, and 2.2 volumes is still going to taste fine.

    So you can just eyeball it. It's an imprecise thing anyway because there's an indeterminate amount of sludge at the bottom of the fermenter, which won't go into the bottling bucket. Basically figure you've got about 0.75 gallons of usable beer there, after removing some for your hydrometer test. If it turns out you've got 0.8 gallons instead, it will be slightly less carbonated. If it turns out you've got 0.7 gallons, it'll be slightly more carbonated. Whatever. (I'm using 0.75 as an example, you should eyeball it.)

    But if you want to be a little more rigorous about it, you could weigh the fermenter, weigh your empty fermenter (with the same accoutrements attached) (I'm assuming you've got a second fermenter because you have 2 kits), and take the difference. Figure the beer weights 1.01 grams per milliliter and do the math. Honestly I think this is too much work though, and it lends a kind of false precision because, as noted, you've got to adjust for the sludge, which you have no way of measuring precisely.

    You didn't ask, but: you don't need to worry about getting yeast into the bottling bucket to carbonate the beer. There is more than enough yeast still suspended in the beer, even if it looks fairly clear to the naked eye. This is true even for considerably longer primary fermentations. I've had beers in primary for over a month and there was still plenty of yeast in suspension.

    [Edited to add: I really don't trust the Brooklyn Brew Shop instructions. Let us know if you want any guidance. The basic process is to boil the sugar in maybe 2/3 cup of water, cool it quickly in a water bath, pour it in your sanitized bottling bucket, and go. But it occurs to me you might not have a bottling bucket, in which case you can use the pan you used for a kettle. In that case you'll be siphoning the beer into the bottles. But I'm getting ahead of myself, let us know if the bottling process is at all unclear.]
     
    #88 minderbender, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  9. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    So I've been looking at the calendar...why am I bottling on Saturday?? I only need the beer by say the 30th. If I bottle this Saturday @ 6pm that would be only 4 days in the fermenter and 10 days in the bottle. Thats not the optimum mix is it? Wouldnt it be much better to let it sit in the fermenter for more like 7 days and then do 7 days in the bottle? (or even less in the bottle more in the fermenter?)

    I have two kits but only one has equipment, the other was a gose "refill" kit that I stole the grain from and it doesnt have equipment, only ingredients. For a bottling bucket I was thinking of using a sanitized 1 gallon empty drinking water jug? Or yes I do have the kettles.

    I actually didn't think about the yeast issue..thanks for "clearing" that up...pun intended....

    Is the purpose of the bottling bucket to allow mixing of priming sugar without disturbing the fermenter sludge(s)?

    If so, I could weigh my bottling bucket, then siphon into the bottling bucket, weigh again, and know the volume precisely, right? Then add priming sugar and bottle?
     
  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    You must choose the lesser of two evils. Do you want to run the risk of off flavors, or are you willing to serve flat beer? That's a really tricky question. I think it is a given that your beer will not be fully carbonated and it is a given that people will notice that. It is not a given that you will have off flavors, but the risk is high enough to make me concerned. Not everyone tasting the beer may detect the off flavors, if they are present. I always recommend tasting the beer before packaging it, to evaluate if there are off flavors that might warrant more time with the yeast in the fermenter. A forced diacetyl test is a good tool that not many new homebrewers would use. Not too difficult, look it up.
     
    #90 pweis909, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  11. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    Unlike pweis909, I think a bottle of normal (not imperial-strength or super-sour) beer will generally fully carbonate in 10 days. I generally let mine go 14 days, and it's always been sufficient. But 10 days is definitely borderline, hence the hurry to bottle.

    The other consideration is that the beer will continue to mature in the bottle. True, once it's off the yeast the process will go a bit more slowly, but as I mentioned there is still quite a bit of yeast in the beer. So it's not as though you're stopping the clock on maturation and starting the clock on carbonation, it's more that you're slowing down maturation while you get carbonation going.

    The answer to your first question is yes. If it were possible to brew beer without any yeast/trub/hop debris collecting in the fermenter, I think you could just mix the priming sugar into the primary fermenter. But of course that's not the case. Bottling buckets also often have siphons that make it easier to bottle.

    The answer to your second question is, that would work mathematically, but bear in mind you have to boil your priming sugar in water. So there's a chronological problem where you won't know how much sugar to use until you've weighed your beer, by which point it's just sitting there being exposed to oxygen while you measure out your sugar etc. I guess you could contrive to do this pretty quickly (you could already have the water boiling, so it's pretty quick to add sugar, wait for it to dissolve, then take the pot over to the sink for a quick cold-water bath). Or you could have your priming solution made with a known quantity of sugar, and then use whatever percentage of it is called for once you've weighed the beer. These are fine approaches I suppose (the second one seems better than the first, just remember to shake or stir the priming solution so the sugar is evenly distributed before measuring), but personally I would just guess the volume by eye.
     
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  12. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    FTFY. Otherwise I'm unsure what you meant unless you are recommending bottling by using a siphon which the OP would have to do if he uses the boil kettle.

    OP, you've been short on a lot of equipment to properly get this beer from kettle to bottle, so I have to ask if you have a bottling wand and some tubing? If not, I can't recommend any other way to get your beer into a bottle without allowing a lot of oxygen to get into the beer.

    The link I gave you yesterday about tasting off-flavors in the beer is from John Palmer's book, HowToBrew.com and is a must-read if you want to continue with this hobby. It's free online (1st edition), and really not expensive to buy the book to have the latest edition. Read the section about bottling so you have an idea of what your next step is all about.

    Boiling the priming sugar water also gives you the opportunity to top off your beer a little bit with the water that is used. If you estimate that you're a quart short with your beer in the fermenter (you will have to leave a little bit more of the beer behind when you siphon it off of the trub), that's two bottles worth. You can boil your sugar in any amount of water to top off the beer, and the extra water makes for a thinner sugar solution and easier to mix into the beer. But it is important to incorporate that solution evenly into the beer by gentle stirring without creating bubbles. (This is another reason for using a bottling bucket - to stir the beer without trub involved.) If you don't top off the beer, that's okay too. You'll just have a more concentrated version of the beer. But mix that sugar solution into the beer well!
     
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  13. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    No, you got it right. This is how my brain works pre-coffee. [How does your brain work post-coffee? - ed. Shut up.]

    Edited to add: Yeah, the Brooklyn Brew Shop kits don't seem to include a bottling wand. For 12 bottles, though, I think you can get by with just a siphon, especially if you have someone to help. Real pain in the ass, but much more doable with 12 bottles than with 50.
     
    #93 minderbender, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  14. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    Ya no bottling wand..just a racking cane, tube, and clamp! I do have an assistant and will only be bottling maybe 10 bottles so should be pretty fun. 50 would be pretty rough!!

    Equipment got here..bottle capper and caps seem to work great on my empties. Havent tested the hydrometer yet.

    I'll probably mark off volumes on my bottling jug (drinking water jug from walmart) so that I can at least know how much beer there was..I'm curious at this point but I see what you mean about eyeballing it being good enough.

    The beer color is really nice..can't recall ever actually drinking one that looked like this though..

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    all this for maybe a quart of home brew?
     
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  16. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    We're hoping/helping to convince him to continue with this hobby after this beer becomes a success. First lesson learned is that you don't get much beer from one gallon batches. Think bigger!
     
  17. riptorn

    riptorn Pooh-Bah (1,776) Apr 26, 2018 Georgia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    ....and dipping a toe into the process.
     
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  18. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    Oh dont worry too much about my continuing, I would be pleasantly surprised if this batch turned out satisfactorily but its not a decider as far as whether I'll make more, I'm definitely making more!! Its cheaper and tastes better (or will) than store bought!

    I'm getting starry eyed dreaming of my mini brewing setup. Some things I would really like:

    -bump volume up to 2 gallons. This will comfortably fit into my temp controlled heat/cool fridge and still be very easy to handle physically in a small space. 2 gallons is enough beer to last me almost 4 weeks really so could take me batch to batch

    -temperature controlled mashing...with a relay and a switch I could use my same temperature controller setup on an immersion heater or hot plate. I do have easy 240V access in a perfect spot in the garage so I think if its 2 gallons then I could get something inexpensive going for temperature controlled mashing.

    -mash cooling may still have to be ice..which is a bit inconvenient but not terribly so. not sure what to do here. maybe its okay as is

    -sounds like I will need a better bottling setup if I'm doing 24 bottles..a wand?

    -I need some better mash straining and pouring equipment...I think I'll buy some wire mesh and make a mash bucket that goes inside the boiling pot

    I want something always fermenting in the fridge!!
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    From my perspective a 2 gallon batch is a ‘waste’ of time. It basically takes the same amount of time to brew 1, 2, 5 and 10 gallon batches but needless to say as the batch size increases you productivity greatly increases.

    I would encourage you to ‘evolve’ to a 5 gallon batch but ultimately this is your decision.

    If you decide to proceed with 2 gallon batches maybe a Mr. Beer ‘barrel’ would be appropriate for you since it is of size 2 gallons (a little bit bigger to realize 2 gallons of beer). You could probably get one of these for 25 cents at a yard sale.[​IMG]

    Cheers!
     
  20. acannell

    acannell Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2017 California

    I think what will happen is that eventually I will make something I really like and then I will justify the bigger jump to 5 gallons, I need to pretty much replace everything including the fridge to do it

    I didn't time it but I am pretty sure with the ice bath I was able to cool the mash really fast, probably less than 10 minutes. I'd need alot more cooling capacity to do similar with 5 gallons and up. Plus I am trying to keep my beer consumption to 1 per day and having 5 gallons on draft could be ... problematic.....

    I'm shooting to bottle at 4pm today (about 2 hours from now)

    Bottles are having labels stripped

    Hydrometer seems china-close to 0 in plain water

    Jug marked off in 500ml (500g actually) increments

    Guessing 0.8 gallons online calc says 17.77 grams of sucrose needed for "2.4 vol" of CO2 with the beer at 72F. Does that sound about right? It would be better to boil water and pre-mix priming sugar into it right? Versus just pouring in dry sugar and trying to mix it in room temp beer just a few minutes before bottling? With a little algebra I can figure out how much priming sugar solution (at whatever concentration I make) needs to go into the beer, or is that overkill?

    I'd like to have more than enough priming sugar in solution ready to go so that I can siphon the fermenter into its bottling bucket (the marked off jug) and quickly calculate how much priming sugar to pour in. I could probably just eyeball it all but having some control and measurements here will give me at least one data point to work from in the future..

    I'll be making a taste test and a hydrometer measurement pre-priming sugar. Should I even try to incorporate this final gravity measurement into calculating the priming sugar needs?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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