Bringing issues up with the brewer you work for

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Joe13, Aug 19, 2019.

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  1. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    I don't think they can brew nor run a business honestly
     
    #21 Joe13, Aug 19, 2019
  2. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    I have had these beers, many of them. And all of them, besides the infected ones, are typically watery and low on flavor. Its equivalent to a mr. beer kit quality beer. And they typically always taste flat.
    People like the brewery because the brewer is not focused on ipas. But my friends always hears customers saying the brewer needs to fix his gas lines, and tune up his beers. Most people also do not return. And he has seen many, many beers left un-drank.

    I am not. I would also rather play the "don't ask, don't tell" game here, as I am not looking to talk down on any business, I wish everyone well and I just seek advice to try and help people out best I can.

    No knowledge here, however my friend has mentioned he believes the brewer may be pitching yeast at too high of a temp, or fermenting at too high of a temp causing the yeast to be stressed giving off flavors, such as a band-aid like aroma/flavor. Could this also be due to dirty lines? I have a feeling they probably are not cleaning lines ever.
     
    #22 Joe13, Aug 19, 2019
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    A band-aid aroma/flavor is from a chlorophenol compound in the beer. For homebrewers (and maybe a commercial brewer in this instance?) this is typically caused by brewing with municipal tap water that is chlorinated. It is very important to remove the chemical that is used to chlorinate water (e.g., chlorine, chloramine). I am a homebrewer and I use my municipal tap water to brew but I utilize a 3-stage carbon block water filter system to remove the chlorine.

    If the brewer is utilizing municipal tap water but not taking the necessary steps to remove the chlorine (or chloramine) from that municipal tap water this is a mistake.

    I don’t believe it is common in commercial breweries to use chlorine based cleaners/sanitizers but if utilized these chemicals need to be properly rinsed prior to brewing.

    Cheers!
     
    #23 JackHorzempa, Aug 19, 2019
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  4. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think you and drtth called it Jack. The place sounds like a disaster and I highly doubt that it can be turned around. Nor do I expect it will be around for too long.
     
    #24 NeroFiddled, Aug 19, 2019
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  5. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Your friend should pack up his experience and get another job.
     
    #25 rgordon, Aug 20, 2019
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  6. Beer_Stan

    Beer_Stan Initiate (0) Mar 15, 2014 California
    Trader

    This story sounds so familiar and a shame that its often par for the course with passionate people working for the less passionate.
     
    #26 Beer_Stan, Aug 20, 2019
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  7. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Your friend should find some investors, sweep in and buy the brewery cheap. The owners need to get out, and they either don't realize it quite yet or have given up. They might be so ready for rescue, that your friend can get a deal.
     
    #27 bbtkd, Aug 20, 2019
  8. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    Does it matter the style? I noticed it in a Rauchbier...could the smoke be giving this medicinal flavor?

    This place has barely even been open for a solid year. But you along with everyone else seem to be right. It seems like a disaster. I believe the brewer knows hes rolling downhill fast but is just really hoping for some sort of miracle. They have a great location, probably the only thing they have going for themselves. And people in the area want this brewery to be good and succeed. These guys just need to tune up a lot of things, but I think they're too far gone, and the brewer has too much pride to be asking for help. It is really such a shame.
     
    #28 Joe13, Aug 20, 2019
  9. jageraholic

    jageraholic Pooh-Bah (1,632) Sep 16, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Bring up comments he's overheard working and back it up with the negative reviews that exist while trying the beers and demonstrating, talking about the foam/off tastes first hand with the brewer. Bring it up as a general overall business concern. Still be prepared to lose a job or walk away.
     
    #29 jageraholic, Aug 20, 2019
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you are noticing this only in the Rauchbier it is likely a differing phenol from the smoked malt:

    “Specialty malts can add even more phenols to beer. Malts smoked with hardwood or peat fires absorb many of the burning lignin phenolics. The high temperature of the burning peat or hardwood can also chemically transform some of the malt’s simple lignin phenolics into compounds that do not normally occur in plants.”

    I have noticed medicinal flavors in a couple of Rauchbiers that I have tasted.

    Cheers!
     
    #30 JackHorzempa, Aug 20, 2019
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  11. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    Many Islay Scotches, as well as some non-Islay ones like Talisker, are known for producing love-'em-or-hate-'em medicinal flavors that, to my understanding, derive from ortho-Cresol, a type of phenol. I fall into the "love 'em" camp with Scotch (as you probably could've guessed), and I'm a big fan of rauchbiers, but when I do find that medicinal flavor in rauchbiers, presumably from the same source, I don't enjoy it. I also think that's a big part of the reason that so few Islay-whisky-barrel-aged beers taste any good; ortho-Cresol doesn't mesh with beer, at least to my palate.
     
    #31 islay, Aug 20, 2019
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  12. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    Not sure I've ever noticed it in any scotch I've tasted, but I am also not too familiar with Islay scotch. Whenever I notice it in a Rauchbier I definitely do not like it, but maybe that's because I always identify it as an off-flavor
     
    #32 Joe13, Aug 20, 2019
  13. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    Cheers to everyone in this thread lending out advice. I will pass this all along and will update you all as soon as my friend speaks with the owners
     
    #33 Joe13, Aug 20, 2019
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    FWIW I am with you here. I do not like the taste of 'medicine'.

    Cheers!
     
    #34 JackHorzempa, Aug 20, 2019
    Joe13 likes this.
  15. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Where is the fun in that? Encourage the owner to come into this forum so he can get advice from hundreds of random people in this thread.
     
    #35 HouseofWortship, Aug 20, 2019
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  16. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    How big is the brewery? This discussion is a perfect example of why owners shouldn’t be brewers. I’ve never known an owner brewer that has been able to balance the schedule long term. Exceptions would be when there’s a partnership that lets one owner act as a GM and another as the brewer. A lot of people think that hiring a brewer on salary is going to be unaffordable, but a good brewer can easily earn their salary... $50k is a good starting point. If you get a good brewer and they’re underpaid, they will leave for a better opportunity which will inevitably pop up. If the brewer doesn’t earn their salary, fire them and get one that does. If your business actually can’t afford a decent salary for the brewer, you probably don’t have a good business plan to begin with.
     
    #36 honkey, Aug 20, 2019
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  17. maddogruss

    maddogruss Pooh-Bah (1,803) Nov 4, 2006 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Bring from NJ, I am concerned that this is happening in NJ. I need to avoid bad, flat beer!
     
    #37 maddogruss, Aug 20, 2019
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  18. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    Not a bad idea!

    The brewery is fairly big, probably too big for what the brewer can handle. I would say it has a 150-200 person capacity, and has over 15 taps. He is definitely brewing too much beer that doesn't move fast.
    The business is in partnership between husband and wife. The husband seems to only want to brew the beer and not deal with much else. He leaves the office work up to his wife, who also has a full time day job before taking care of brewery business. She also knows nothing about beer, running a business, or hospitality.
    The one hopeful thing is the brewer tends to do a lot with local home brewing groups, so fingers crossed the home brewers lend him some advice, albeit a few home brewers have mentioned to my friend that the brewer does not like criticism especially from his staff.
    I just can't understand how someone can serve a beer that is totally infected. I mean non-beer drinkers have been known to tell him it doesn't taste right. I understand its money lost if you dump a batch of beer, but it's even more money lost by losing a customer for good.
     
    #38 Joe13, Aug 20, 2019
  19. Joe13

    Joe13 Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2018 New Jersey

    They do seem to do a lot of events on the weekends, such as a band every friday night. Usually it is free, but once in a while they do a $10 cover charge. And they also have one t.v. that sometimes have sports on. Does anyone know the current laws in New Jersey with events at breweries now? I feel like it is constantly changing. Last I heard was 25 events per year. And with tvs at least, You're allowed 2 tvs but if its a major event/game such as a playoff or championship then it counts as an event? But regular games do not count as events?

    Man, I am not a sports fan, and I do love when I DO NOT see a t.v. in a bar. I like to be either social when I drink, or at least have a buddy there with me just for company but still sit in silence...Weird?
     
    #39 Joe13, Aug 20, 2019
  20. scream

    scream Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2014 Wisconsin
    In Memoriam

    From my experience owners and managers do not really want to hear about problems, they want to hear about solutions. Bringing up issues without also the detailed way to te resolve them will likely cause your friend trouble.
     
    #40 scream, Aug 20, 2019
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