Darkening Beers Through Extended Boiling

2.9.3 Vienna malt
Vienna malt is used to correct over-pale malts, to produce "golden" beer and to improve palate fullness.

I am guessing this is just the case, for this recipe. It's being used for emulation of the custom PU malt. I'm not saying its correct however, just speculation of it's use.

 

I talked to someone that won the PU challenge a few years back, and got to go to PU and brew. I was told the color comes from the house malt and triple decoction.

 

The color comes from the second/triple decoction (PU does 3) that all Czech breweries use for their svetly lezaks. Also the malt they use is undermodified, which is still available.

 

How would one go about acquiring PU's house malt, which is apparently malted to their own specs?

 

It sounds like what you have been proposing has been increasing the length of the boil for the entire batch of wort. I would like to propose a slightly different alternative. I am brewing a batch of beer tomorrow (an entirely different style than what you are brewing though). The process for brewing my beer involves collecting the first gallon of runnings in a separate kettle. The rest of the runnings are collected (as always) in the main kettle. Then the first gallon of wort is boiled separately until it is reduced to 1/4 of a gallon. Once this is done it is added back to the main kettle. The entire batch of wort is then boiled for the length of boil that the recipe calls for (in my case it is 90 minutes). This process does have an affect on color. However, I am uncertain the affect it would have on a lager. I thought I would at least mention the process if you were experimenting with different ideas.

 

I'm pretty sure you can't get their malt but there's some undermodified pilsner malt out there online, you might even be able to find some from the Czech Republic.

 

I've looked in the past. Link?

 

I googled to see if I could find anything -- an old Beer Advocate thread from yours truly asking about Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils, in which those in the know weighed in that although described by vendors as being described as slightly under-modified, it is well-modified. I thought about chit malt, which is available at Great Fermentations (and probably elsewhere,) and I came across this article that got to the same place, subbing some chit malt in with pils malt to come up with a base malt blend that better reflected under-modification.

 

You'll generally want to find a malt with a s/t ratio of 36-40, Weyermann's floored bohemian pilsner malt is apparently 38-44. I've found some sites (like this one) that have czech malt but you'll want to email them for the stat sheet to make sure the s/t ratio is under 40.

 

Please explain what S/T is, because I can't remember anywhere in Technology Brewing and Malting S/T being mentioned? I think you're talking about the Kolbach index, in which case 38 is still fully modified, please clarify, so there is no confusion, also if you can provide a specific pilsner malt that isn't fully modified I would be quite surprised.

 

I'm not as informed as I'd like to be with these ratios and what not but yes I was referring to the Kolbach index (as in the fact sheets of these malts s/t is listed). There might be some malts out there that are in that 36 range but few sites include the fact sheet so it's hard to tell without emailing each wholesaler. But since decoction was used because of the undermodified malt, I'm not sure what effect undermodified malt has on the color of the lager, if at all.

 

Thanks, but personally I would want to find a malt 35 or lower. Most people would not say that 36-40 is under-modified. And virtually nobody would call 38-40 (or 38-44) undermodified.

S/T Ratio stands for Soluble nitrogen to Total nitrogen Ratio. It is indeed the same thing as the Kolbach Index (not to be confused with the Windisch-Kolbach unit, which is a measure of diastatic power (a European alternative to degrees Lintner)).

 

I'm familiar with the soluble nitrogen ratio (aka Kolbach index) being a measure of what percentage of the total nitrogen in the malt is dissolved in the congress mashing process, but I've never seen it reported this way, what manufacturer reports it this way?

 

Briess, for one. I know there are others, but don't have spec sheets to consult at the moment.

 

Not that important, just was wondering if companies actually report this ratio in this way, thanks. I guess it's mainly companies outside of Germany that report it this way.

 

"S/T" may be pretty much an american thing.

 

If undermodified malt was the end all be all, you wouldn't have to search the world for it.

 

Oh, I don't think it's that, but if I'm going to experiment with decoctions and/or full slate step mash schedules, it would seem to make sense to try undermodified malts.

 

I am trying to get away from speaking in absolutes. However, generally speaking where the malt is malted is how the wort should be produced. If using an american malt that converts by looking at it, a step mash or decoction is a waste of energy. However if the malt is is produced continentally then it is very much suited to the methods used therein.

Under-modified malt is not desirable, which is why its nowhere. Weyermann is a giant malt producer for many a german breweries, not a one of those uses a single infusion mash. Yet the malt is very modified.

Due to what we know from modern brewing science the hot side, let alone the mash tun is not somewhere you want spend more time than needed. Get in, make sugar, add bitterness, get out. Sheer, thermal, oxidiative stresses are way more important to be avoided.

 

Are they doing both true/full acid rests and protein rests? I just think it would be interesting to see the results from a truly under-modified malt, with the full complement of rests, sort of a retro beer. I don't necessarily think it would make a better beer, but it would make a different beer. How it would differ and how much it would differ is what I'd like to find out.

I do understand what you're saying about oxidative stresses.