Infected Quadruple Big Bad Baptist

I prefer to just never age anything except lambics, wilds, and barleywines.
Even with no actual infections, I hate the way most aged stouts anyway. I have no need for port wine, teriyaki, and old person's house flavor notes.

 

So, you'd pass up on a vintage Thomas Hardy Ale at a reasonable price?

 

That's a Barleywine/Old Ale (no need to argue nuance), so I'd happily buy that one.

 

Just a heads up. My 2017 triple was a drain pour. Reached out to Epic via Facebook and they confirmed that my batch 3 was infected possibly by the elder Brett yeast.

 

That beer is actually more interesting than regular Abyss. I don't mix it with anything, just call it a tart Abyss. (c:

 

I used their Facebook page to message and they are sending a refund

 

Ditto

 

Release 7 still tasty. Not getting any infection/sour taste at all.

 

a) At the time of sale, the beer was not spoiled and tasted as the brewer intended
b) Beer is perishable whether pasteurized or not- it only takes time, if the consumer doesn't drink it fresh, the "risk" of it spoiling is on the consumer.
c) Infection or oxidation are both spoiling, should oxidation be the brewer's fault too? I'd be rich if I demanded a refund for all the oxidized beer I've drank.
d) 'Cellaring' (or not drinking within 3-6 months) more often than not ends up a failed experiment and should always be considered at the consumers risk.

Not the brewer's fault unless it's off-flavored immediately out the gate. (knowingly selling bad beer). Regardless EPIC is the size of brewery I'd expect them to do (& afford) lab tests before selling their BA stouts.

Yet another reason to use apps like BA & Untappd and review/rate beers to help people know what's good and what's gone bad.

 

Yo, dawg... give our boi a break.. he’s just figuring out the whole ‘reading’ thing lol

 

I have to agree with the statement that it was already infected. Shrugs.

 

Totally.
My whole point was that these problems could be avoided if people just drank things sooner.. our Ivy League buddy up there just wanted to assume that I was assigning blame.

 

If a perishable product you purchased a year ago is not up standard that is entirely on you.

If I were a brewery owner I would not refund that product. There's no way to guarantee a beer was stored in optimal conditions once it left my facility. Good on Epic if they do dole out refunds. Might be to save them the headache of dealing with entitled keyboard warriors.

 

After reading this thread it sounds like the bro's should take down the cellaring/aging forum?

 

Look at the situation with white labs selling contaminated yeast to left hand. That is clearly the yeast suppliers fault. If I leave a bottle in a garage that is below freezing at times and over 100 at others that will also be detrimental to the beer and accelerate oxidation. Again, not the brewers fault.

 

You're not wrong, but you're picking the worst case scenarios that aren't a majority of cases.

This is the same reasoning anti-vaxxers used to use for why vaccines are bad for you. (re: mercury concentrations) The argument is completely ignoring the concentration of infection. Technically true, if a infection shows up later it's the brewer's fault as the beer was infected originally. But what happens more often than not, is that the infections don't show up until >6+ months after release, which brewer's don't plan on and really don't intend for people to age that long. Most brewer's I've heard talk about it, release beer when it's "ready" to drink. They'll even say "drink fresh" right on the label. Some take extra measures to allow beers to be cellared and aged under the right conditions, but typically they are higher alcohol beers that help inhibit infection growth and/or they are styles that further develop with aging.

What I'm hearing is that, regardless the beer should last FOREVER (or years) without any sort of degradation, which is entirely uncontrollable. Imperial Stouts (non-adjunct, not barrel-aged) are fairly easy to keep clean. Regardless of cellaring conditions though, I've never had one 3-4 years old that didn't have some sort of discernible oxidation. Should I take it back and blame poor bottling methods where used?

The most obvious beers at risk of infection are adjuncts or barrel-aged stouts as they almost inevitably going to be infected unless there's some sort of pasteurization or lab-testing done to insure the beer isn't infected before leaving the facility. Typically due to poor barrel cleaning and/or poor adjunct sanitation (both of which are hard to do without stripping out the desirable flavors).

Can the infection be a large amount and detectable at release. Of course. This is the minority. A majority of infections have amounts that would be deemed TRACE amounts undetectable by the human palette for months. Trace amounts of infection are negligible in beer until months or years of aging and have to be in the right condition to grow the infection to be detectable.

Can the oxidation be a large amount and detectable at release. Of course. Again, the very small minority. Most breweries practice methods of brewing and bottling to reduce this. Regardless with enough time oxidation WILL occur. It's science and not entirely preventable. The hoppier the beer, again, the higher the risk.

Regardless I still enjoy cellaring beer, but fully accept the risks involved and see it as an experiment when I do cellar beer.