Did Surly's Todd the Axe Man Change?

Thanks, I'm always intrigued to see if there is uptick/downtick in people's perceptions of beers from brewers that gain or lose a really well respected brew master.

 

I personally have no ‘baseline’ with Surly (i.e., I have never had the pleasure of drinking a Todd brewed beer) but there is zero doubt in my mind that Ithaca Flower Power became substandard when their head brewer Jeff O’Neil left Ithaca Brewing. Jeff is now a brewery owner (Industrial Arts) and crafting excellent beers there.

Cheers!

 

I'm glad that someone else wrote this because the negative comments were starting to make me wonder what was wrong with my taste buds.

I recently tried both Axe and Furious for the first time and thought that they were both exceptional. I was also impressed that I was able to get less than one month old versions of both here in PA.

 

i bought a can here in PDX and i thought it was good. but then again, i still like old school IPAs and beers that dont taste like orange soap. Definitely maltier than a lot of new beers, but still had a good citrus nose and solid bitterness.

I hadnt had it for 5 years or so, so its hard for me to remember how much it has changed.

 

Gonna be a devil’s advocate here. If “they haven’t made a truly good beer since [Todd] departed,” then perhaps Todd “f’d up” too. I realize it’s likely that he didn’t exactly leave on the best of terms, but if a head brewer at a big enough place works in an environment that can’t maintain performance with his/her departure, then perhaps the headbrewer wasn’t doing a good enough job as headbrewer. I’m not stating that any of that is the case, I’m just responding to your opinion and logic. I don’t have an opinion about their beers. You’re acting as if he brewed on his own in a bubble.

 

Abrasive was as amazing back in the as any ipa could possible be. Same with Flower Power such a shame imo that two great beers are lost to history.

 

Had plenty of furious and abrasive purchasd through France 44 about 4 years ago, first time with Todd and it was very underwhelming and $17.50 per four pack. Tasted like NU vs hazy from pipeworks which I did not care for at all.

 

Mine canned 10/31

 

Well said.

 

Absolutely. With this beer time is of the essence.

 

The overall flavor and quality of the beer...??? Isn't that obvious from the name of this thread?

Sorry to say but Todd has defiantly gone down hill in the last 2.5 years. Also if your trying to say that one person leaving can not effect batch quality, then I guess you must have missed the bombers from TG when Mike left...

Brewing is an art. Without the original artist you just dont have the magic.

 

We visited MN two weeks ago and brought back a couple of cans of TTAM (still with the orginal artwork) and ran a side by side to some local PNW beer -- Sticky Hands by Block15. Both had dates very close and pretty fresh - 3 weeks for TTAM and 4 for SH. The Surly was still much as we remembered it. It had much more aggressive hops while Sticky Hands was still a high powered fresh-hopped IPA and smoother. I know there's going to be some "Hey, that's not a good comparison - you shoulda used xxx" But it was what we had in the fridge.

Now, we gotta do something with that 2016 Darkness....

 

Since when was Axe Man a hazy beer?

 

Again, an interesting take, and I respectfully disagree. Brewing is an art, but it’s also a science and a skill. At most breweries, head brewers don’t physically make every batch of beer adding their special je ne sais quoi to the batch. They spend their days doing much less glamorous stuff like managing people, tending budgets and contracts, and dealing with broken equipment. Most of the brewers here now, worked with Todd and were managed and promoted into the positions they’re in today because they could do the job of making the beer with consistent precision batch after batch.

 

I picked up some Todd the Axe Man (canned on 10-23-19) for the first time in a while because of this thread. I found it superb, as great as I remembered it. I think it stands out more than it used to -- for me for better, for others perhaps for worse -- as IPA fashions have drifted away from it over the last half decade.

Also, I think Surly has released quite a few great new beers post-Hexit (including Yummi Bear and Black Horsemen, in stores now at least in Minnesota), and I was a big fan of Haug's work at Surly. I do think Surly has chased trends and emphasized commercial viability more than it did in the Haug era, and that's unfortunate artistically, although perhaps it was an inevitability with that much capacity and flattening craft beer sales.

 

Had an Abrasive two nights ago & another a few days before that. This year it is fantastic. I won't speak to Flower Power because (cough, cough) it's halfway across the country & I don't get to have it often.

 

The 4-pack I purchased was canned on 10/31/19 so needless to say less than 4 weeks as of today.

I had my first can this evening as I grilled steak for the family dinner. I enjoyed it. It had a nice hop aroma/flavor to it. There was some malt backbone as well but in this beer the hop aroma/flavor is the predominant flavor aspect. It also had a smooth mouthfeel aspect with a moderate bitterness aspect. As I have remarked previously I have never had this beer as brewed by Todd but I thought this beer was good. Was it 'better' in the past? Needless to say since I have no 'baseline' here I really do not know.

There has been some discussion in this thread about how important is the presence of a head brewer in terms of maintaining brand consistency. I have no way of knowing the Todd/Surley story but as I have stated there is zero doubt in my mind that when Jeff O'Neil left Ithaca Brewing the beer Ithaca Flower Power remarkably decreased in quality upon his leaving.

Yes, commercial breweries will state that beer brands will continue to be brewed per a recipe and by others who have brewed who have brewed there before the head brewer left. The influence of a head brewer should not be understated. They play an influential role in insuring consistency of ingredient selection and how to best make changes/tweaks when those ingredients vary. This requires lots of skill and experience. And while that does not necessarily mean that those folks who worked at the brewery as assistants have no skills in this regard there are no guarantees here either.

Cheers!

 

I might dial up France 44 then, the last batch I had wasn’t good, but it was 3 months old too.