What Beer "Style" Best Exemplifies the Ridiculousness of Having Styles?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by honkey, Mar 26, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    I've been on a bit of a rampage lately with people telling me they're brewing Italian Style Pilsners (my answer to the question in the topic). I ask them what makes their pilsner an "Italian" style and I keep getting told that it's like a German Pils, but it's dry hopped. That ignores the fact that German brewers have dry hopped Pilsners for "at least" 115 years. Textbooks from Weihenstephan from the early 1900's describe the process of dry hopping. Some people say that German brewers couldn't dry hop because it was outlawed by the Reinheitsgebot (false and the beer purity law that actually ruled in Germany never outlawed dry hopping, it outlawed adding advanced hop products post boil and it was later clarified that dry hopping was legal because of some confusion) but they also ignore that brewers in Germany have been breaking the purity law ever since it was written.

    To further the ridiculousness, there's basically two breweries in Italy that brew these dry hopped pilsners (using German malts and hops)... two examples of a beer "style" does not constitute a whole new style of beer.

    So in your opinion, what "style" best displays the silliness of continually adding new styles of beer?
     
  2. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    "Session IPAs" - they are mostly just crappy versions of an American Pale Ale.
     
  3. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    I kind of knew this would be one of the first examples. I slightly agree, but only because of the execution of session IPA's. I think the difference is in the balance. One of the first beers I ever brewed was back in 2009 and as a 19 year old homebrewer, I was referencing homebrewing forums and resources constantly. There was a chart that showed gravity units to bitterness units and where the balance between malty and hoppy existed. I was big into hop bursting (still am actually) since I love hop flavor and aroma, but I'm not a big fan of bitterness and I brewed a "session IPA" that was nothing but late hop additions and a big dry hop amount that would be typical of an IPA at the time. It was skewed heavily on that chart to "extreme hoppy" and was 4.5% ABV. I shared that beer with a few brewers and I actually landed a brewing gig because of that beer. I think most session IPA's today really are just dry pale ales, but I do think there's a small amount that exist as something that's different from a pale ale.
     
  4. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I never got on board with the "black IPA" (aka the Cascadian dark ale)...just seemed odd.
     
    hottenot, surfcaster, SILVER and 10 others like this.
  5. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Blasphemy... :stuck_out_tongue:
     
    66jzmstr, hottenot, AirBob and 25 others like this.
  6. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    @honkey, your post reminds me that every time I look at the beer styles list on this site (and maybe it's other lists too) that geographical naming of styles is needless, just like your Italian example. An example is the American Stout vs. English Stout. Does it really matter? I think not.
     
    hottenot, DIM, Eddiehop and 18 others like this.
  7. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

  8. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    I think the distinctions have become less apparent between English styles and American styles recently. There was a time where everything for American styles was basically taking English styles and pushing the boundaries with higher ABV, more hops, dryer finish, etc. and brewers used American malts, hops, and yeast strains. Today, I'd be willing to bet that more American brewers use yeast strains that are considered English strains (Boddington's yeast being so frequently used in hazy IPA's for instance) than ever before and that these styles have been subject to globalization.
     
  9. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    At least it was distinctive which is arguably the point of a style...? I used to brew one and I hated doing it. I just don't think it's a good style... The astringency of roasted malts with the bitterness of hops... Not my jam. I will say that I didn't dislike Wookie Jack, but that might be my least favorite Firestone Walker beer that I can recall.
     
  10. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,325) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    then you'll love this - I just bought a "polish style pilsner" today brewed by a local brewery. Not sure what that is ...
     
    hottenot, Junior, officerbill and 8 others like this.
  11. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Here on Beer Advocate there are 5 different Porter styles and 7 different stout styles, seems like overkill. I think you could reduce 12 down to like 4-5 and include pastry and there would be enough differentiation that people could actually tell the primary differences.
     
  12. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    For me, probably sour IPAs. I think they try to take everything that is trendy in craft beer and treat it with excess to create a product that is generally not good. At a certain point, it feels like dry hopping with a trendy hop or the inclusion of that hop is just to help move the product. People like hops like galaxy. This beer isn't very good, but it's got galaxy in it. It'll move. It doesn't feel like it was organically a style people were clamoring for but rather an amalgamation of all that is trendy. A mash up of an IPA and a kettle sour sometimes with fruit, sometimes with lactose!
     
  13. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    Interesting example with Galaxy. As a brewer, that example shows exactly how consumers drive trends and also follow the lead of others. I think it has been 4 years since I've had a really good Galaxy beer. Growers for that hop tried to increase acreage without really increasing their ability to harvest the hop and as a result, the pick windows are far too big now. I think that's a problem for almost every hyped hop variety out of Australia and New Zealand. Today, all the Galaxy beers I try taste like they used a hop that was left too long on the vine and the sulphur compounds are through the roof. But people still drink Galaxy beers and think "tropical fruit." I think that's a great example of the power of suggestion.

    As far as Sour IPA's, I haven't tried many of them... If someone creates a sour wort and they use hops in the boil, you have sour and bitter which just don't work well together in my opinion. I do love dry hopped kettle sours (actually have one fermenting right now) and my belief is that if you're using a fruity tasting hop, that you should try to match the acidity of the beer to the acidity of the fruit that the hop resembles. I'd never put lactose in that though
     
  14. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,790) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    So many, how to choose?
    • American Imperial Pilsner. Where is the American Pilsner counterpart? So a 5% Pilsner HAS to be Bohemian or German, can't be American apparently? Should just be American Pilsner, don't need imperial. Really don't need imperial anything, the ABV states it well. OK, keep RIS.
    • So, a Pumpkin Stout could be a Pumpkin Ale, a Fruit and Field, a Herb and Spice, or a Stout. Or even a Winter Warmer. Who decides? Obviously we don't really need Pumpkin Ale.
    • Eisbock (ice-bock) is made by slightly freezing and skimming the ice to make it stronger. No real requirements for the makeup of the beer itself. Essentially it's a process, not a style, since you can make an Eisbock out of most any base beer. Or just brew it strong.
    • Rauchbier, Smoke Beer, and Smoked Porter. Do we really need all three? Make a decision. Lose Smoke Beer.
    • Winter Warmer, Pumpkin Ale, Herb and Spice - lot's of overlap here, never mind that they are usually some other distinct style that just happens to be marketed as a winter beer. Jettison Winter Warmer.
    • Don't get me started on Chile Beer.
    That's just first pass.
     
    #14 bbtkd, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  15. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Do we need American and Russian Imperial Stouts either. IMO it should just be Imperial Stouts but if you feel the need for a national name the Russians got there 1st so they win.
     
    hottenot, DIM, spersichilli and 8 others like this.
  16. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    At the Real Ale Fest in Chicago one year a visiting Englishman asked me why we called it Russian Imperial Stout. He said it was either Imperial or Russian Stout -- using both together was redundant.

    Since he was from the land where the style (sorry) originated I've always remembered that and headed his lesson.
     
  17. Hops_n_Malts

    Hops_n_Malts Initiate (0) Jun 14, 2019 Kentucky

    Milkshake IPAs. What the hell, man.
     
  18. thesherrybomber

    thesherrybomber Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2017 California

    First it was the hops arms race, followed by barrel aging everything, finally adding weird flavors to everything

    Now it just seems everyone is mixing styles, methods, etc. and giving it a new name
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Can you please provide more details here? Specifically what hops were used to brew that beer.

    Cheers!
     
    FBarber likes this.
  20. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I was just pulling out a trendy hop. I was just using galaxy as an example of a hop that is just a buzz word that people think is good. I have had a similar experience to you as far as not having had a good galaxy beer since...2017?
     
    FBarber likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.