Traders Backing Out Of Agreed Trades

I'm hoping to keep this as simple, concise, and drama-free as possible, but I need to post some backstory.

This isn't the first instance of this, but it's the one that bothers me the most.

I organised a trade with a very experienced trader for a huge bucket list beer. After some back and forth, he told me there was a specific new release he wanted. I went to the release and bought it for him (not a close drive either). Told him about another bottle - said he'd like that too. Bought it. He said he'd hold the trade bottle for me, because it was too cold to ship (Feb) and said we'd look into shipping in Apr or May - (take note). He also gave me two other options he said he'd like me to look into later, but it wouldn't be mandatory (I have one being held for me), and also a 4pk of hops when it's time to ship.

He went silent, I gave him a few friendly nudges, sent him a trade request (he denied it), and then he said he can't get into details, but he's not allowing boxes to come into the house now, and that he might circle back in the future when things are different.

Now, if it were just a matter of, "Hey, I'm not comfortable trading now, but I promise I'll hold your bottle and we'll ship when things are better", I'd be 100% cool with that. No questions asked.

He's posted at least 6 or 7 trades in the last two weeks, and has 3 trades open. I'm out the money, and am holding these beers, and he won't tell me if the trade is still on, just that he can't get into details. This is what bothers me.

Any constructive opinions would be greatly appreciated. I'll also include a poll for anonymous opinions.

Read below about the trade request situation

 

RE: Trade Request

Because he wouldn't ship until May (possibly April depending on the weather), a trade request opened at the start would have expired. Even if it wouldn't (and it would have), if I opened a request and then couldn't get the beer he wanted, then I would be at fault, because you don't open a request until the trade beer is in-hand (see trading rules). Normally, a request would be opened before anything, but in this instance, it wouldn't have been appropriate.

 

Unfortunately, I think you're right about this, and that I'm just going to have to cut my losses. On the plus side, one of the beers I got him turned out to be the best BA barleywine I've ever had. No issue keeping a spare.

As you've probably figured out by now, I have a proclivity for giving others the benefit of the doubt. I keep holding my breath hoping for an explanation or at least some kind of message other that, "I can't get into it. Maybe I'll circle back later", but it isn't looking very good.

I guess it's just a grey area. "Is this acceptable trader behaviour or not?" - hence the thread. I've always just been a, "If I give you my word, then there's no turning back" kind of person. At the very least, it'll allow me some insight into the opinions of other traders, positive or negative.

I do appreciate your take on it. Thanks.

 

I got a lot of flack for not opening a formal trade with him beforehand, and I think a lot of people don't understand that sometimes it simply isn't appropriate or even feasible too. Really big releases especially. Are you familiar with Allagash Coolship Bardus? 600 bottle limit, 1pp (changed), and a crazy rush of people. If you offered someone a trade for a beer like that, and opened a trade request before going, and the bottles sold out before your number, then you'd be at fault for finalising a trade without the beer in-hand. Even releases like Swish - right now, they're doing preorders with limited quantities, and they sell out in minutes of going live. I promised a Swish trade to someone, and even hovering with my credit card, it sold out before I could purchase it. Luckily, there's another release and the guy was understanding, but some people aren't, which could lead to negative feedback.

I always abide by the - if you don't have the beer, don't formally open a trade - rule.

In a broader sense, it's probably best not to post a trade until you have the beer in-hand, but sometimes it just doesn't work like that. If it's something you know you can get, and you need to factor in how much to get to allot for traders, then I see no problem with it. Things like Dinner, Swish (not during a pandemic), and normal Allagash releases, I can confidently post ahead of time, with 110% certainty of getting the beer, but that doesn't apply to everything.

At the end of the day, I guess there will always be risks involved, and you have to weigh those risks accordingly. I've been spoiled by a long list of amazing traders without experience a single issue, that I think I forgot that people actually screw people over here sometimes. I just wouldn't have it in me to backtrack like that and bail on an agreement.

I agree, without an open trade, the situation doesn't warrant a Bad Trader thread. I have to take a bath, but luckily it's a shallow one, and I still have the beer. It could be worse.

 

Oh no no, I didn't mean to imply that at all. I have no recollection of you ever criticising my trades. I was just making a point about it, because it was basically the point several people used to highlight how getting screwed on this trade was my fault. And I agree with them to a certain point, but sometimes opening a request first just isn't practical.

I didn't think that whatsoever, but thanks anyway for clarifying.

 

Here's my theory, and the full backstory.

Trader messaged me way back when I posted Bardus FT.

I replied and said it was closed, and asked what it would take to land a Fou' Foune - one of my all time dream beers.

He seemed surprised I'd never had it, and said, "At the very least, I'll send you a Fou' because I've had it plenty of times. He said there was a very specific new release he wanted. I drove to Portland to about 4 shops, and couldn't find it - sent him a list of others. Wasn't interested. Went to a final shop, and they had something he was interested in. Asked me to grab that. Learned the other thing was a brewery-only release, and dropped tomorrow.

Said he didn't want to ship lambic until May, maybe early April depending on the weather. Said he's done plenty of international trades where they didnt ship for over a year, and told me not to worry, that he wouldn't back out, and he'd set the Fou' aside for me.

I traveled to the release and got the main bottle he wanted. He gave me some other options, but said that they weren't necessary - just a general guideline, and that I could grab them or something else plus a 4pk of hops when it came time to ship. I actually have one of those bottles on hold now.

Asked him what else he might want, offered some specific limited bottles, etc... Told him I'd like to start planning what to get, since spending close to $100 on a bottle would mean staggered purchases.

Went silent

I offered some additional options, told him the weather warmed up. Sent a trade request.

Last week, he replied (denied the trade request), said he has a lot going on, and that he might circle back at later time. Also said he has a Fou' coming, but the borders are closed, so that may take a while.

I asked if the trade was at least on.

He said he cant get into personal info, but he can't bring boxes into the house, and again, he might circle back later. Said "if you don't want to wait, that's fine".

With all that said, I'm guessing that in the two months elapsed, he got a better offer, maybe drank the bottle, but assumed since the trade was never opened, that it could just be left at that. Maybe to him, $47 is not really anything to complain about, and didn't think I'd be upset about it.

He actually seemed like a really nice guy at first. I kind of had a bit of a fumble when he told me what he wanted for it, but that was my fault, I apolgised, and he said it didn't need to be exactly that, and that I had time. He reassured me that he'd include something to even out the price a little bit. I made it very clear I was 100% on board and would do everything I could to find whatever it is he decided he wanted, but the second bottle I got seemed to be the one specific thing he wanted, and I was prepared to meet any other demands he had. Never any concerns during our communication.

He seems to trade a lot of lambic, so I have to assume that somehow, the bottle disappeared, and that's why he doesn't want to get into detail, because I've seen several trades in the last two weeks.

Either way, I've accepted that I'm not going to see a Fou' Foune, the offer was too good to be true to begin with, and because of this, unless it's one of maybe 5 traders I'm close with, I won't be purchasing beer without having a request opened first. I'm not the type to make demands like that, but after this, and several similar (and much less drawn-out) instances in the last month, I'd rather be strict than lose any more money.

 

I didn't post a trade for those beers. My post was for Bardus - a beer I already had in-hand.

 

Traders still post beers for trade before the release comes up. Happens every day. Have you never posted a Tired Hands release or a Voodoo release before it drops? What happens next can vary a lot, and perhaps you could be at fault, or the trader you're working with, but I can guarantee that hundreds of traders post trades for upcoming releases - particularly when you know you can get it. I post trades for Dinner often a week before release, because I know I will get it, and it allows me time to calculate how much I need to get. I've never not been able to send someone beer I promised because of that. One minor delay once, but never failed. Sometimes it just works like that.

 

That was an interesting read, thanks. I'm glad see so many people side with the victim of that trade ordeal. Hope things worked out for him. I think in a way, his situation was different, in the sense that it was more personal, more official, planned meetup, had all the beer, etc.. where as my deal was a delayed trade, I only had half the beer, and there was no agreed ship date - just when he deemed it warm enough.

I don't want to escalate this to a BT thread. I agree that it's bad trading etiquette, not cool, and he should have handled it differently, 100%. I'd honestly rather eat the money spent, and just take note of the guy, and if asked to, share his name. Let him keep his Fou' and I'll keep the bottles he wanted. It isn't like has going to send one anyway.

Now - I want to reach out to him one more time, and explain my situation, and request some clarification on his end. I haven't replied to his last message, so I at least want to give him a chance to see whete he stands on this. After that, if you want me to divulge his name, I'm happy to. I'm certainly not going to beat around the bush like last time. Let me give the guy a quick nudge, and then follow up here. Whatever you want/think is appropriate after that, I'll gladly cooperate.

I feel like that's how cops talk to repeat drunk drivers when they pull them over and have them put their hands behind their back hahaha

Sorry. You have to joke sometimes.