Breweries that you used to like but avoid now?

Founders: racism
Yuengling: union-busting & other bullshit

IMO, Founders continues to make some of the best beer-for-the-money out there, but I’m waiting to hear how their anti-racism reforms pan out before I spend my dollars there.

Yuengling makes boring beer all around, but would be a fine BBQ and dive bar lager if they weren’t such shitty corporate citizens in every way imaginable.

 

Not even close to every brewery, just a few of the biggest and many of them that already sold out. Still lots of love going around

 

Two Brothers. And I try to dissuade anyone from drinking Two Brothers beer as well.

One of the owners (Jim) is a convicted baby-shaker who gave his infant permanent brain damage. He was also disbarred. The brewery keeps it under wraps, and its not easy finding information about it online. However, if you search for JAMES VICTOR EBEL II you should find it.

 

Yeah, I honestly can't understand avoiding a brewery because Duvel (a family brewery) owns it.

 

So I am really curious. What are the 2 things they have done, and the 2 you doubt will ever happen?

After initially boycotting them, I have been of the opinion that they paid their dues and have been making changes. And I usually feel that people who still boycott them are going too far or are unaware of the fallout and changes. However, you seem to actually have more info than most do.

 

This thread brings back so much awesome nostalgia when i first started getting into craft beer! Seems to generally be a trend with some of the “big boys” craft breweries.

Here’s my list of breweries i drink less of now. Please keep in mind I have nothing against these breweries and glady buy their beer currently, and in the future, so take it for wat its worth.

1. Local option would be Noon Whistle. Seem to be a great group of folks, my only complaint is I don’t believe they make/sell their standard Facesmack Berliner anymore. Now it is only with a peach adjunct. The original Facesmack was the best beer I’ve ever had and I’d buy cases if it comes back!

Noon Whistle has seemed to shift more towards their NEIPA “Gummy” series, and I don’t blame them as I understand it’s a more popular beer than my preferences. I just wish they’d bring back original Facesmack, loved that beer to the moon and back!

2. Lagunitas - nothing really against them, I just usually choose beers from smaller breweries I haven’t had before. Used to love their Lil Sumthin Sumthin. This selection also a bit im change of tastes as I now seek out Lagers over Ipas.

3. Deschutes - same as above, nothing against them and Fresh Squeezed was one of my favorite beers.

4. Three Floyds - kind of same as above, but their price point is a little higher altho nowadays it seems beer price has raised slightly more in line. 3F was my favorite brewery that got me into craft beer.


Note: there is 1 local brewery I will not buy due to a poor customer experience one time, however I don’t feel it brings any value to the thread so I will not mention them.

 

If you think Founders has "paid their dues," then you're devaluing the damage they caused in the first place. After years of bad behavior, you don't get a magic wand to make everything okay. I'm glad that Founders is finally taking things seriously after years of denial and empty gestures. It's going to take time for them to make things right.

 

Do you have any current info on steps Founders has taken?

They closed their Detroit location for something like four months after panicking that their employees there were speaking out about racism. They finally reopened in February pledging to hire more people actually from Detroit (which I guess is their coded language for black people?), but then of course COVID hit.

They also to promised to donate the profits from the Detroit location (which has been closed to most business) to community groups, but the donations on its website are mainly to animal shelters and environmental orgs (none that seem to explicitly address racism).

I'd love to hear that Founders is taking shit seriously, but I have to see some actual evidence before I'm going to choose them over the myriad of other beer providers.

 

@thuey - I am assuming that the Firestone Walker mention by @woemad has to do with political reasons rather than ownership ones.

 

I appreciate the question and recognize that people will have individual criteria for making that decision. When it comes to boycotts, I personally like to have concrete actions that indicate a change in culture or approach (i.e. talk is cheap). These are what I told Dave & Graci in March of last year:

What they've done:
1. Commit to more diverse and local hiring in their brewpub & taproom.
2. Partner with community organizations in GR & Detroit that address issues related to racial and economic inequality. (At the time, they'd supported mostly environmental & arts organizations.)

What they haven't done:
1. Provide a forum that allowed Graci Harkema to speak in her own voice and from her individual perspective (I guess now it'd be Buzz Thomas). Given Founders size and stature, this could have been a chance for them to lead the industry forward on this issue, share best practices, and generally elevate the level/quality of discussion in the craft beer community.

2. Provide avenues that allow persons from underrepresented classes to enter or advance in the industry. This could happen in any number of ways: fellowship/apprenticeship for graduates of a brewing program (GRCC, Siebel, etc.), collaboration series with black-owned breweries, scholarships for black homebrewers wanting to pursue more formal training, maybe something else. Who knows, get creative.

These aren't fixed in stone. Maybe they do other things that are similar enough to demonstrate that they recognize the issue and want to work toward a solution. Great, I would love to feel good about drinking their beers. Based on what I've seen, I'm pessimistic.

 

IMO, that's an unrealistic expectation.

Can you name any other corporation that has an employee with both unrestricted access to inside information and permission for unrestricted public criticism of the employer?

 

I never said it had to be critical, that's an assumption you're making. It could easily have been positive commentary on how to move the industry forward or observations on the industry-at-large and how they were trying to change things. My only ask was for it to be authentic and true to her perspective as a black woman working in craft beer. Do you seriously believe that she would have considered "unrestricted public criticism" to be a good strategy?

As for this kind of "criticism"? A very wide range of companies have released Diversity reports and the ones that do it right do allow their Chief Diversity Officers (or the equivalent) to speak candidly.

https://diversity.google/
https://www.citigroup.com/citi/diversity/annualreport.htm
https://www.rochester.edu/diversity/reports/annual-reports-on-diversity/
https://toyotadiversityreport.com/
https://www.kelloggcompany.com/content/dam/kellogg-company/files/DI_Report_2019.pdf

Direct message me if you want, I'm happy to continue the conversation, but I'm done derailing this thread.

 

Agree 3 Floyd's is old news, nothing interesting going on there (imo)

 

Yeah for sure, Goose Island beers are meh, aside from BCS (imo)

 

I expect none of those have free rein.

 

I don’t drink their mass produced beers, but Gilliam and Madam Rose are in my top 10 beers all time, maybe top 5.

 

Evil Genius

 

Honestly it gives me more respect for them. I mean if its good enough for duvel...

Plus its not like I worry they'll dumb down the beer

 

Stone and Witchs Hat.

 

Love Founders, love Three Floyds.

Hate Equilibrium (garbage), starting to hate Deschutes.